Jeff Pippenger – Sabbath Meeting – April 13th, 2024

 

Notes: Presentation Notes PDF

I’m going to begin with John 10:24 through 27. A few Sabbaths ago, William raised a question that is kind of behind much of what I’m going to try to share here today. That being that he was, I don’t know where he was at exactly, but he was lifting up the idea that why would predicting July 18th, 2020 be any different than identifying that Donald Trump’s going to win the next election. And the inference there was, well, you got a date there as well. You know when the election is and when the inauguration is going to be. And I told him I didn’t really know how to answer that.

And my answer now is that the reason you can make a distinction is because you know the voice of the Lord. I’m not so sure that we understand how important it is at this point in Earth’s history to understand the voice of the Lord and what it means. So I’m going to begin there with John 10:24 through 27.

“Then came the Jews around about Him and said unto Him, how long does thou make us to doubt, if thou be the Christ tell us plainly? Jesus answered them, I told you and you believed not. The works that I do in my father’s name, they bear witness of me, but you believe not because you are not of my sheep. As I said unto you, my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.”

And in John 10, the same chapter, verse 16, He talks about having a second flock. He says, “And other sheep have I, which are not of this fold, them also must I bring and they shall hear my voice and there should be one fold and one shepherd.”

So what I’m suggesting is that there’s a deeper meaning to understanding in hearing the voice of the Lord than is typically recognized with a surface reading from Revelation 14, one through five, where we see the characteristics of the 144,000.

I’m going to cut into those verses in your notes of the last couple of verses that says, “These are they (speaking of the 144,000), which were not defiled with women for they are virgins.” Of course, we know that in the Great Controversy, Sister White tells us the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 illustrates the experience of Seventh-day Adventists. So the 144,000 are virgins. They are from the fold of Seventh-day Adventism, and they bring with them the story of two classes of virgins.

It continues on in chapter four, Jesus says, “these are they which follow the lamb whithersoever he goeth.” And Jesus said, His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. And I’m suggesting that the 144,000 are those that hear the voice of Christ in a distinctly different way than is typically understood.

Chapter 14 of Revelation says, “these were redeemed from among men being the firstfruits under God unto the lamb, and in their mouth was found no guile, for they are without fault before the throne of God.” And to be without fault at this point in history, among the 144,000, they are sealed. Probation is closed for them. And they are those that follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth.

And in Isaiah 6:9, and 10, speaking of hearing the voice, “and he said, go and tell his people, hear ye indeed but understand not and see ye indeed but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat and make their ears heavy and shut their eyes lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and convert and be healed.”

So in the controversy that is Adventism, which produces wise and foolish virgins, and which is a parallel prophetic passage to Habakkuk, and Habakkuk identifies the “debate”. In the experience of Adventism, there’s a debate that takes place on whether you hear the true Latter Rain message, or a counterfeit Latter Rain message. And everyone hears it, but it doesn’t produce the change in the foolish virgins that it does in the wise virgins.

There’s something about hearing Christ’s voice that is more profound than we’ve recognized in the past. So I’m not going to hold William to the interaction that he and I had, but I’m just going to use it as a sounding board.

The reason that we can have confidence that the Lord is identifying future events at this point, and why this is different than identifying July 18th, 2020, is that at this point in earth’s history, those people that are being awakened by His voice need to “know” His voice. And I’m saying that His voice is illustrated in the methodology of Line-upon-Line and the connected truths with that methodology of biblical study.

And that the prophecies that are now being unsealed and set forth by the Lion of the tribe of Judah bear the signature of Christ in so many ways, that they are what His voice is, that we are supposed to become familiar with.

Now, in the next quote, from Selected Messages, book two, page 106, there’s a couple of things in there, the first sentence and the last sentence…. “The book that was sealed was not the revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel, which related to the last days.” So the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that related to the last days demands, if you’re really going to get technical about it, that you identify what the “last days” are.

And my argument has been from the very beginning of these articles that even Paul or John, the prophets of old, they may have written their testimonies in the context of it being the last days, but they knew better. Paul knew that there still had to be “a falling away first” before “the man of sin” was revealed.

They wrote in terms of end-time events, but the true fulfillment of the Last Days begins during the Judgment Time. And the true fulfillment of it is, the sealing of the 144,000. The portion of the prophecy of Daniel that was sealed up, that related to the last days, is the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that identifies the history of the sealing of the 144,000. And the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that accomplishes that, is the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that takes place before the Sunday law, and the Sunday law in the last verses of Daniel 11 is verse 41.

Therefore, the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that “related to the last days”, which is the sealing of the 144,000, would relate to the period of time that precedes the Sunday law, because those that received the Seal of God do so before the Sunday law. At the Sunday law, they will be lifted up as an ensign.

So “the portion of the prophecy of Daniel that related to the last days”, is the portion of Daniel 11, verse 40, that takes place between the “Time of the End” of 1989, when the Soviet Union was swept away, and the Sunday law, which, in the verbiage, or the words, that are in verse 40, there’s nothing said. It’s a “hidden” period of time.

That “hidden” period of time from 1989 until the Sunday law, is “the portion in the book of Daniel that relates to the last days”. It’s in that period of time that the 144,000 are sealed. And it’s that portion in verse 40 that has nothing there, it’s “empty”. And we know that the Lord is going to unseal a truth in the last days that transforms the 144,000 from Laodicean to Philadelphians.

So in this passage from Selected Messages, book two, page 106, the first sentence we touched on, I’ll read it again, and I’ll read down to the last sentence in this quote. “The book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel, which related to the last days. The scripture says, but thou, O Daniel, set up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end, many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. When the book was opened, the proclamation was made, time shall be no longer, see Revelation 10:6. The book of Daniel is now unsealed, and the revelation made by Christ to John is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth. By the increase of knowledge, the people are prepared to stand in the latter days.”

Sister White is like all the prophets. She’s speaking for the days in which she lived, but she’s more specifically speaking about the last days. And here, she’s speaking about the book of Daniel being unsealed, and she identifies that it was unsealed on October 22nd, 1844. It says, “when the book was opened, the proclamation was made, time shall be no longer.”

So, she’s identifying that when you reached 1844, the angel that had come down in the beginning of chapter 10 of Revelation with “a little book open in his hand”, and then four years later in 1844, the book is fully open, and “time shall be no longer”. And the next sentence says, “the book of Daniel is now unsealed”, but that last sentence is where you can see the implications of the prediction about the last days, because she says, “by the increase of knowledge, the people are to be prepared to stand in the latter days.”

The people that were standing in 1844 were not the people that stand in the “latter days”. There has to be something from that portion of the book of Daniel, that related to the “last days”, that is unsealed, that causes God’s people to “stand” in the “last days”.

And in your next quote from Revelation 9:11, and I’m going to do three quotes here in a row, purposely, to emphasize “9/11”, because one of them is from Revelation 11 verses 9 through 11, and one of them is from Ezekiel 37 verses nine through 11, and one of them is from Revelation chapter 9, verse 11. And I’m arguing that all of these passages have the little linguistic signature of “9/11” on them, and that they all connect one way or another with one another.

And the reason that I’m making this point is because this is part of the “voice of the Lord”. When we’re looking at His Prophetic Word, and we see these types of signatures, we’re to have a confidence that it is His voice that we’re hearing, and not some unsanctified shepherd. We’re hearing the True Shepherd.

So in Revelation 11:9-11, it says, “and they of the peoples and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell on the earth shall rejoice over them and make merry and shall send gifts one to another because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and a half, the spirit of the life from God entered into them and they stood up on their feet and great fear fell upon them, which saw them.”

These “Two Prophets”, which by context are Moses and Elijah in chapter 11, they’re slain in the street for three and a half days. And then they are going to stand up on their feet. And in Selected Messages book two, that we just looked at, page 106, there’s an “increase of knowledge” that prepares God’s people to “stand” in the “latter days”. And the increase of knowledge is in the context in this paragraph where Sister White is referring us to a truth that is unsealed by the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

So there is a truth that is unsealed in the “latter days” that causes God’s people to “stand”. And these Two Witnesses that were slain in Revelation 11, verses nine through 11, they hear the “increase of knowledge” and it causes them to “stand up”

Ezekiel 37:9-11, says, “Then said he unto me, prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, thus saith the Lord (where God comes from the four winds), ”Oh, breathe and breathe upon these slain that they may live. So I prophesied as they commanded me and the breath came into them and they lived and stood upon their feet an exceeding great army. Then he said unto me, son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say our bones are dried and our hope is lost. We are cut off for our parts.”

This is Israel in a disappointed, dead, state that are being brought back to life. They’re being caused to stand up by “the breath of the Lord”, and the “breath of the Lord”, the “four winds” (the breath of the Lord that causes them to stand), is the message of Islam. There’s an increase of knowledge from the book of Daniel on Islam, and the chrachter of Islam in Revelation 9:11 is identified. And it says, “and they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but the Greek tongue, hath his name Apollyon.”

In either Greek or Hebrew, it means “death and destruction”. And Sister White, commenting on that (she’s not commenting on Revelation 9:11, but commenting on the “four winds” that are held while the 144,000 are sealed). She says, “Angels are holding the four winds represented as an angry horse seeking to break loose and rush over the face of the whole earth, bearing destruction and death in its path”, “…bearing Abaddon and Apollyon” in its path. “Shall we sleep on the verge of the eternal world?”

Evidently God’s people are in a sleeping condition while the four angels are holding the winds. “Shall we be dull and cold and dead? Oh, that we might have in our churches, the spirit and breath of God breathed into his people that they might stand upon their feet and live. We need to see that the way is narrow and the gate straight. But as we pass through the straight gate, its wideness is without limit.”

There is a message that’s unsealed in the last days that causes God’s people to stand up, but they have to “hear” that message. And they have to understand that it is “the voice of the Lord”.

In Revelation 11, the Two Witnesses are dead in the street. In Ezekiel 37, those witnesses are a valley of dead, dry bones. And the person in the scriptures that brings the dead back to life is Christ. And He’s portrayed as Michael the Archangel, when He does so.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 and 16, says, “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” Jude 1:9 says, “Yet Michael, the archangel, when contending

with the devil, he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said the Lord rebuke thee.”

The Two Witnesses in Revelation chapter 11 are Moses and Elijah. And here we have an example of Michael, the Archangel, bringing Moses out of death by resurrection. And these Two Witnesses in Revelation 11, verses nine through 11, they’re brought back to life by the “voice of the Archangel”. And when He comes down, as illustrated in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 and 16, He descends from heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.

In the scriptures, one of the descriptions of God’s voice is that it’s “the voice of many waters”. And the “waters” are the Latter Rain. And if we’re going to understand “the voice of the Lord”, I contend that we need to understand that when Christ speaks, His words touch many truths at the same time. His voice is the “voice of many waters”. One passage in the scripture correctly understood is Christ’s voice. And if you can correctly understand it, then you will see that that one passage connects with several other passages, Line-upon-Line. If you cannot recognize that about God’s Word, then you don’t understand His voice to the level that you should understand it to be.

So before we move very much further in these notes (and we’re almost through them), I want to give you some examples of what I mean. In the beginning of the Sealing of the 144,000, on 9/11/2001, an Angel descended, and “He cried with a mighty voice”, and He “breathed upon” His disciples. And the reason that I’m saying that He “breathed upon” His disciples at that point in time is not only because He opened up the message of the Third Woe, which is this “four winds” that are being held by the four angels during the Sealing Time, but also when Christ was resurrected, He ascended to the Father, and when He descended back down to meet the disciples, He “breathed upon them” the Holy Ghost.

And Sister White tells us that it was as “a few drops” before the mighty outpouring at Pentecost. And at 9/11 “the breath of the Lord”, marks the beginning of the “sprinkling” of the Latter Rain that begins at the start of the Sealing Time of the 144,000.

He descended from heaven “with a shout”, and the shout is there, you can see it in Revelation 18, verses one through three. He “cries mightily”, He has a message, but it’s the “voice of the Archangel”, it’s the voice that brings people back to life, “and with the trump of God.”

And the “Trumpet Message” that arrived on September 11th, 2001 is the message of the Seventh Trumpet, which is the Third Woe, but it was also the message of the Jubilee Trumpet, because the Lord was going to lead His people back to the “old paths”, and they were going to understand the “Seven Times” of Leviticus 26, which addresses the Jubilee celebration, and the Jubilee Trumpet was supposed to be sounded on the Day of Atonement, and therefore the time prophecy of 2520 years that concluded in 1844, brought with it the Jubilee Trumpet, and it was to be sounded on the Day of Atonement, which was the end of the 2300-year prophecy, at which point the Seventh Trumpet was sounded, and it’s during the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet that the mystery of God is to be finished.

So in 1 Thessalonians chapter four, when the Lord comes down as He did on 9/11, He comes down with a message, as is illustrated in verses one through three of Revelation 18. He’s bringing a message of life to the dead, and the history of September 11th has been typified by the history of 1888, and the message of Jones and Wagner, and they brought the Laodicean message, which was the message of life to those who would accept it, it’s the voice of the Archangel, and He brought with Him the Trumpet of God.

And what I’m saying here about this parallel of when Christ came to the disciples after His death and resurrection, and what was accomplished at September 11th, 2001, that that is the beginning of the Sealing Time on September 11th, and at the end of the Sealing Time (Jesus has illustrates the end of the Sealing Time with the beginning of the Sealing), so at the end of the Sealing Time, when the Two Witnesses have been dead in the street, the Lord descends with “a shout”, a message, and the message that is shouted out then is the message of the Midnight Cry.

He has “the voice of the Archangel” because He’s going to resurrect those represented by Elijah and Moses, and He’s going to sound the Trumpet message of both the Seven Times and the Third Woe.

The point here is that one passage from scripture, correctly understood as “the voice of Christ”, opens the door to a multitude of other passages, and this is the justification for understanding what we’re saying about these coming events as being accurate, because the applications that we’re making about these things are so thoroughly established with various Lines and Scriptures, that this message is “the voice of many waters”, that this isn’t a singular approach to seeing everything in the context of numbers.

Going back to our consideration of 9/11, in Daniel 9:11, it says, “‘Yea, all Israel transgressed thy law, even by departing that they might not obey thy voice. Therefore, the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses, the servant of God, because we’ve sinned against him.”

If you understand that all the prophets, including Daniel, are illustrating the end of the world, and if you’ve done your homework and realize that the 144,000 are a group in the scriptures that are called “the outcasts of Israel”, they are a group that has to be “gathered” in the last days, because they’ve been “scattered”, then you understand that Daniel 9:11 is illustrating God’s people at the end of time, and when they awaken to the fact that they’ve been scattered, and that they’re in the enemy’s land, they have to awake to the fact that what got them into the enemy’s land was that, according to Daniel 9:11, they did not obey “the voice” [of many waters], okay?

So this is kind of the issue that William and I, at least that I was understanding, is that the Millerites did obey the voice, and they suffered a disappointment because the Lord held His hand over a mistake [that affected] some of the figures. But at the end of time, when the parable of the 10 virgins is repeated to the very letter, those of us that were involved with that disappointment [on July 18, *2020], we were not being obedient. We had not listened to “the voice of the Lord”, and the voice of the Lord that we had rejected was the voice of 1844, Revelation 10, verses six and seven, when the angel pronounces that “time should be no longer”.

And this revelation about the Millerites being obedient in their First Disappointment, and the movement of the 144,000 being disobedient in their First Disappointment, is absolutely essential to recognize.

And the prophetic testimony is just dripping with passages that uphold this truth. And if you can’t see this truth, then you’re not understanding “the voice of the Lord”.

In verse three of Revelation one, it says, “Blessed is he that readeth”, and “they may hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, for the time is at hand.” And then in chapter 22 (and this is the beginning and the ending of Revelation, chapter 22, verses 10 and 11), where it says, “Then he said, ‘Seal not the things of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand’”, just like in the beginning. The next verse, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still, and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still, and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” … is just before human probation closes.

The time is at hand to unseal the prophecy in Revelation that’s been sealed up. And the books of Daniel and Revelation are the same book. And the portion that is sealed up is “that portion of the prophecy of Daniel, which related to the last days”. It’s that “hidden area” in verse 40 of Daniel 11, where the sealing of the 144,000 takes place. And only those that can recognize “the voice of the Lord” are going to be benefited with the conversion that is accomplished through “the voice of the Lord”.

Now, I want to show you the progression that’s in Revelation concerning “God’s voice”. I got chapter eight of Revelation in the notes before chapter four, but I’m going to read from chapter four first. I’m going to do it in order.

In Chapter four, John sees God the Father seated upon His throne, and He has in His hand a book that’s sealed with the Seven Seals. And Jesus is going to prevail to where He can unseal the book that is sealed with the Seven Seals, and He progressively removes those Seals one-at-a-time. But when John is first shown the Father on the throne with the book that’s sealed with the Seven Seals, it’s in chapter four, and it says, “and round about the throne were four and twenty seats, and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment, and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices, and there were seven lamps of fire before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God.”

And in some of the articles (maybe you’ve read them, maybe they’re not even posted yet), but we’ve taken the time to show that “lightnings, thunderings, and voices” are symbols of God’s Prophetic Word being opened up. And here in chapter four, the book is sealed with the Seven Seals, and what’s being emphasized is, what I’m emphasizing out of this passage, is that from the throne comes the lightnings, the thunderings, and voices. But when you get to chapter eight, now you’re at the period where Christ is already removed six of those Seals, and He’s going to remove the final Seal.

And I’m saying the final Seal that is being removed, by context, would have to be this prophecy in the book of Revelation that is sealed up until just before human probation closes. And you know that it’s true, because in chapter eight, when the Seventh Seal is being removed, you see the “judgment angels”, they’re getting ready to bring judgment as in verse 11 of chapter 22, “seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book for the time is at hand.” He that is unjust is going to be unjust still. This final prophecy that is unsealed, represented by the Seventh Seal, is represented in chapter eight, verses one through five.

And it says, “and when he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space a half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God and to them were given seven trumpets.” (There’s your “judgment angels”.) “And another angel came and stood at the altar having a golden censer. And there was given unto him much incense that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came up with the prayers of the saints,”…

The “prayers of the saints” by context in the last days, have been illustrated by Daniel in chapter two and chapter nine. One is a prayer of wanting to understand the image-beasts of Daniel chapter two. And the other is the Leviticus 26 prayer of repentance.

And so these prayers are coming up in the last days because this is the final truth that is unsealed. And it says, “…and the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand. And the angel took the censer, filled it with fire off the altar and cast it into the earth. And there were voices and thundering and lightnings and an earthquake” …in response to the prayers that are coming up.

And the prayers would be coming up at the point in time when the Two Witnesses are resurrected. And they realized that they are in a tarrying time, and that they’ve been brought back to life, and that they need to meet the conditions of the Leviticus 26 prayers. And they begin to enter into that experience and here, unlike chapter four, it’s not only “voices and thunderings and lightnings”, but it’s also an “earthquake”.

Once this process [ends] of the Seventh Seal being opened, it brings you to the “earthquake” of Revelation 11. And Revelation 11 is the “earthquake” of the Sunday law in the United States [parallel to the French Revolution].

And if you’re watching these “voices and lightnings”, as you go through the book of Revelation, you’ll see the first time that they’re mentioned is in chapter four, “lightnings and thunderings and voices”. But the second time is when the Seventh Seal is being removed and it includes the “earthquake” of the soon-coming Sunday law.

And when you’re getting to the very end of chapter 11 of Revelation, it says, “the Second Woe is past, and behold, the Third Woe cometh quickly.” The Third Woe strikes the United States at the Sunday law once again, “and the seventh angel sounded, and there were great voices in heaven.” And that seventh angel is the angel of the Third Woe, saying, “the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ.” And the kingdom that Christ is establishing at this point is His Kingdom of Glory.

It was typified when He walked among men, and He set it up during the time period that He was on earth, He set up the Kingdom of Grace. But the Kingdom of Grace that He set up at the cross typifies Him setting up the Kingdom of Glory. And the setting up of His kingdom, according to Sister White’s comments on when He sets the kingdom up, is during the Latter Rain.

And at the Sunday law, the “earthquake”, the Latter Rain is “poured out without measure”, and Christ begins setting up His kingdom. And the kingdom that He’s setting up is the kingdom of Daniel chapter two, the stone that is cut out of the mountain and strikes the image on the feet, ultimately.

So, going back to chapter 11, He’s receiving His kingdom. “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and he shall reign forever and ever. And the four and twenty elders (which sat before God on their seats), fell on their faces and worshiped God saying, we give thee thanks, O Lord God almighty, which art and wert and art to come, because thou has taken thy great power and has reigned. And the nations were angry (this is the terminology associated with the work of Islam), …”and thy wrath is come” (and His wrath is the close of human probation), …”and the time of the dead that they should be judged” (is not the Investigative Judgment. It’s the judgment that takes place during the thousand-year millennium) …”that thou should give us reward and to thy servants, the prophets and to the saints and them that fear thy name, small and great, and should destroy them that destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven and there was seen in his temple, the ark of his testament. And there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake”… and now “great hail”.

The first time it’s just lightnings, voices and thundering, but then in chapter eight, when He’s opened the seventh seal, it’s right on the verge of the Sunday law. So the “earthquake” is there.

And here in chapter 11, it’s progressed to illustrate when human probation closes and the Seven Last Plagues are represented here as the “great hail”, which is the symbol of this Executive Judgment that begins at the Sunday law in the United States, but it continues until Michael stands up.

That Executive Judgment is the time period when God’s judgment is mixed with His mercy. But when Michael stands up and human probation closes, the “great hail” is representing His Executive Judgment that is no longer mixed with mercy.

And then in Revelation 16 verses 17 through 21, you have the fourth reference to these “voices, thunders, lightnings”. It says, “then the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven from the throne saying ‘it is done’. And there were voices and thunders and lightnings, and there was a great earthquake.”

And the “earthquake” that begins God’s Executive Judgment is the Sunday law in the United States. But the “great earthquake” (that ends human probation, is at the end of that period of time, at the death decree), “…such as was not since the man were upon the earth so mighty an earthquake and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts and the cities of the nations fell”.

This “great earthquake” is bringing judgment upon the entire world, the same way that the “earthquake” that hits the United States produces national ruin in the United States. But this greater quake is the one that hits the entire world.

“And great Babylon came in remembrance before God to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon man a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent, and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”

This expression about “lightnings, voices, thunders and earthquake”, it tracks prophetic history. And when it’s mentioned the second time in chapter eight, it’s when the Seventh Seal is being opened up.

If you have a set of notes, you can do what I’m going to suggest, but if you don’t just use a piece of paper, you draw (I’m doing it. So I know it can be done.) If you draw a line across a piece of paper and at the very left side of that line, you put a perpendicular line. And at the end, you put a perpendicular line. And at that last line on the right hand side, you put verse 41 of Daniel 11, marking the Sunday law. That first line on the left is “the time of the end” of 1989. And what you’ve just laid out is the “hidden history” of Daniel chapter 11. And that “hidden history” is the portion that was sealed, that is unsealed just before probation closes, that causes God’s people to “stand”.

All these references, and why I’m hitting these references, is to emphasize that the message that we’re teaching here, it has witnesses all over the place. And the witnesses are based upon the character of Christ. They’re witnesses that identify the “First and the Last”. They’re witnesses that identify “Truth” as the three-step process. They’re witnesses upon His ability to control even the production of the Bible to where He can take passages [of chapters and verses] such as 9-11 and give a testimony about how they’re connected, even though they’re from different passages in the scriptures that is beyond a word-search. He’s the Wonderful Linguist, as He is also the Wonderful Numberer when He lays out the time-prophecies. All of these truths about Christ’s character (for He is the Word), are truths that allow you to understand “His voice”.

Some of you knew my wife, some of you didn’t, but those of you that may have known my wife well (I could bring the relatives that have known her well), and they’d all testified that she had a very different, nothing weird, but she had a different laugh. When Kathy laughed, you could be in a crowd of people and you’re going to hear Kathy’s laugh over the other noises. And maybe it’s that way for everyone’s mother, or wife, maybe it’s that way. But I don’t think so, because there’s just no one that had that type of laugh, except she had a sister, that had the same laugh. And it would blow your mind when you would hear her sister Jeannie laugh, because it would be just like Kathy’s.

And I’m using this to make the point that there’s something about “the voice”, a familiarity that we need to have with Christ’s “voice”, if we’re going to have it produce the effect upon us that it is His desire to accomplish. Because the 144,000 are those that are sanctified by His word. There’s something about His word that makes them holy. And it’s not simply hearing it, because many people will hear the message, but it has to have the effect of producing the transformation.

So what I’m saying is one of the truths about Jesus is the truth that He’s the Alpha and the Omega. He illustrates the end of a thing with the beginning of a thing. And I’m saying that the most special prophecy to be unsealed in human history is the prophecy that is unsealed in the Seventh Seal in Revelation chapter eight.

Its the prophecy that’s unsealed when “the time is at hand” in chapter one, and chapter 22 of Revelation. It is the prophecy that is “that portion of the book of Daniel that relates to the last days.” And the prophecy of Daniel that relates to the last days as found in Daniel’s last vision. And that vision is 45 verses long. And in the first 15 verses of Daniel 11, you have the history of 1989 to the Sunday Law.

Verse one introduces Cyrus and Darius that marks the time of the end in 1989. And verse 16 is the Sunday Law. So verses one through 15 is the history that is unsealed, that is the “hidden history” of Daniel 11, that is supposed to produce an experience in God’s people to where they are sealed for eternity.

Therefore, what I’m saying is that if there was ever a passage in scripture that we need to become familiar with, it’s the first 15 verses of Daniel 11, because based upon the “Rule of First Mention”, the first mention is the most important. And the first time that Christ mentions the “hidden history” of verse 40 in Daniel chapter 11 is those first 15 verses. And in those verses, disregarding the prophetic history that’s opened up, you find all the special prophetic nuances that Christ uses to establish “Truth”. They’re all there in a very profound way.

Okay, so I’m going to lay out those 15 verses very briefly. And if you actually did what I’ve done and you have in front of you a line with a goalpost on the left side which is 1989, and on the right side is the Sunday Law. Those 15 verses of Daniel chapter 11, the first 15 verses, go in there, but they’re just illustrating especially four Lines of prophecy.

They’re illustrating the Republican Horn of the United States as represented by Donald Trump. They’re representing apostate Protestantism in the Line represented by the Maccabees. They’re representing the papacy in verse 14, when Rome comes out and establishes the vision. And in verse three and four, they’re representing the United Nations at the end of the world as represented by Alexander the Great, and then the demise of that kingdom that’s brought about by the “four winds”.

So in verse one of Daniel 11, you have the “Time of the End” identified with the symbols of Cyrus and Darius. And then in verse two, you have the history from the second President from the time of the end in 1989, which would be Bush the Great typified by Cyrus. You have three Presidents that followed. That brings you to Donald Trump who began his campaign in 2015, and was elected in 2016, and was persecuted from the very beginning of his campaign until he was driven out of office in 2020.

So if you go just a little ways into that line [on your paper] and you put another line perpendicular to the long line and you put “2020” above it, the story of Donald Trump and the Republican Horn will take you there. Then it’s going to jump to the kingdom of Alexander the Great, which is typifying the seventh kingdom of Bible

Prophecy that comes in in verse 41 at the Sunday law, where there’s a threefold union, a very rapid change from the sixth, to the seventh, to the eighth and final kingdom.

Alexander the Great of verses three and four is after verse 41. Then you have introduced into the narrative, the collapse of Alexander the Great’s kingdom. And it’s worth noting that in verse five, when the King of the South, after Alexander the Great’s kingdom has essentially disintegrated into two powers, [you have] the King of the South and the King of the North.

But the very beginning of this story of the King of the South and the King of the North is in verse five, where the Ptolemaic kingdom of Egypt is introduced. And it says in there, “and the king of the south shall be strong and one of his princes, and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion and his dominion shall be a great dominion.”

The thing about that is the first kingdom that’s introduced there is the kingdom of Egypt. And the kingdom of Egypt is the “dragon power” in the scriptures. And from that initial powerful Egyptian kingdom, it’s noted that there was a general that was strong, and that general was Seleucus Nicator, and he breaks away from the Egyptian kingdom and he goes out on his own to establish his own kingdom, which he does. And he becomes the King of the North in this struggle between the Ptolemies and the Seleucids, between the area of Babylon and the area of Egypt.

But it’s worth noting that when he becomes the King of the North, he’s representing the papacy. And the papacy came out of pagan Rome, and Pagan Rome was the “dragon power”. The papacy was just pagan Rome with the profession of Christianity thrown over the top. But he was going to be much stronger, the papacy, than pagan Rome.

Pagan Rome ruled supremely for 360 years. Papal Rome ruled for 1260 years. But I’m hoping you will see that here in verse five, where this story begins, and the struggle between the king of the North and the King of the South, that the sequence of the “dragon”, followed by the “beast”, and ultimately the “false prophet” is retained. It’s there, it’s in this history.

The truths that are in the first 15 verses of Daniel 11 go to establish the significance of this “hidden history”.

And I’m not going to spend a great deal of time here, but the struggle between the King of the North and the King of the South, it takes place in the following verses, and takes you to a parallel history in 1798, when the papacy is defeated by “Egypt” [Revolutionary France], and the Ptolemaic general that comes in [Napoleon’s Genreal Berthier], goes all the way into Babylon [the Vatican] and takes the king [Pope] captive. He brings him back to “Egypt” where he died, falling off a horse later. And that little subtle hint identifies the truth about the papacy that in 1798, Napoleon’s general went right into the Vatican, no resistance, took the Pope captive [off his “horse/beast”], and a year later, the Pope died in captivity, just as this Seleucid king had died in Egypt.

But in the death of this Seleucid king, you see him captured in his fortress, and then falling off a horse. And this is the symbol of the papacy. And the papacy is the power, it’s the image, that the United States seeks to copy. It’s the power that “rides the beast”. And this Northern king dies in Egypt, falling off the “beast” he’s been riding on. And in 1798, Napoleon delivered the deadly wound to the papacy, to this system that had been confronting Europe for 1260 years. And a year later, the man that had “rode” that system, died.

So there’s little tiny details in these first 15 verses that let you know, if you’re familiar with “the voice of the Lord”, that these verses are the passage that gets plugged into “the hidden history” of Daniel 11, verse 40. And it is therefore the passage that is the Sealing Message that causes God’s people to “stand up on their feet, a great army”, and be lifted up as an “ensign”.

When you get further on into the verses in Daniel 11, hitting verse 15, and by verse 10, we see 1989 again, dropping back into that history, the papacy is retaliating against the King of the South, and they only go “up to” the head, to the “fortress” [the USSR], leaving Russia standing. So we can now bring in verse 11 and 12, a history that begins before 2020.

If you had a [horizontal] line in your illustration, you should have now three [vertical] lines; 1989, 2020, and the Sunday law. Now, if you put a line before 2020, and put “2014”, you have the Ukrainian war beginning and going through history, soon to end with a victory for Russia, but the victory will be short-lived. It will not benefit Putin or Russia. That is the testimony of God’s Prophetic Word.

And then when you get into verses 13, 14, and 15, you have the history of the Maccabees, the history of Rome inserting itself into history, the history of the Battle of Panium, and Donald Trump consolidating his power with a series of moves that are based upon the United States “speaking”, repeating the Alien and Sedition Acts, so on and so forth…

So what am I saying? I’m saying that it’s not enough for us to just “hear” this message. We have to understand whose “voice” this message is. If we don’t understand whose voice this message is, then the transformation that is accomplished, the sanctification that is to be accomplished through the power of His Word, will not happen.

So it comes to a point to where, when I consider the question, were we really wrong on July 18th? The Millerites weren’t wrong. I’m saying that the Lines of Prophecy that are being brought into the “hidden history” of Daniel 11, verse 40, it leaves you no other choice whatsoever. We had to be wrong.

The message, on so many levels there, required us to go into our period of being “dead dry bones”, in rebellion, in order that when the Lord raises us up, we have something to repent for.

Not only is that truth connected with the Leviticus 26 prayer, but when you track the history of when the Philadelphians (the Millerites of the Philadelphia time period), changed into Laodiceans, that Waymark in their history aligns with the very history to where “Elijah and Moses” are “resurrected”.

The Waymark of obedience to the Lord that produced the First Disappointment for the Millerites typifies a Waymark of disobedience [the opposite] for their parallel history. And without that understanding of disobedience to give us the insight to know the implications of the Leviticus 26 prayer that needs to be accomplished at that time, we also would not have the point of reference to see when the experience of the former Philadelphians who transitioned into Laodiceans at the same Waymark, that the Philadelphian Millerites transition into Laodicean Millerites.

If you don’t see that, then you don’t see “the eighth that is of the seven” in the “two Horns” on the Earth Beast, and that the Earth Beast was going to form an Image of the Beast. And that at the Sunday Law, the beast of the papacy is going to become “the eighth that is of the seven”.

Therefore, before that takes place at the Sunday Law, the United States, in order to form an “Image” of the papacy, would also have to become “the eighth that is of the seven”. But the Earth Beast, as “the eighth that is of the seven”, has two “Horns”, and those two “Horns” go through the same phenomenon.

And that phenomenon of being “the eighth that is of the seven” is speaking to the repetition of the parable of the Ten Virgins. And in that history, the first time it was fulfilled, the Lord held His hand over a mistake [on the 1843 Chart], and God’s people proclaimed the message as it was designed by the Lord, but they were wrong.

That Waymark was typifying [the current FFA] Laodicean movement that was going to proclaim a message against God’s hand, and it was wrong. And they [FFA] were disobedient, as the Millerites were obedient. But the Millerites thereafter transitioned into disobedience, thus setting the example of how the Lord changes [the FFA] Laodiceans of the third angel into “Philadelphians” of the third angel’s Movement.

All these witnesses are “the voice of the Lord”, and the reason why we should understand this message as true is because that “voice” is established on so many Prophetic Lines that it can be no other way. It just can’t be any other way.

So let me get to my point to conclude with (this is a path that you really can’t conclude, this will have to be dealt with over and over again). I’m hoping I’m driving home to everyone that these first 15 verses of Daniel 11, they’re the first reference to the “hidden history” that is the portion that’s unsealed, which is the Seventh Seal that’s unsealed just before probation closes.

In that history, which we have to wrap our minds around to understand, but there’s something there that empowers us to be changed into His image. And our being changed into His image, it takes place at the very same time in history where the apostate Republican Horn, and the apostate Protestant Horn in the United States, are going to come together into one Horn, which is the Image of the Beast. Two Horns are going to join to form one Horn that is the Image of the Beast.

And at the same time, the true Protestant Horn is going to go through a “cleansing” where those that were in the true Protestant movement that can no longer follow the lamb whithersoever He goeth because they don’t understand His [prophetic] “voice”, and they’re separated from the process, leaving the true Protestant Horn to stand alone, and it will have produced the “Image of Christ” at the very same point in history where the Image of the Beast is being produced in the United States.

So in chapter 15 of Jeremiah, Jeremiah is giving an illustration of Millerite history and our history. And in verse 16, he says, “Thy words were found and I did eat them.” When the Angel comes down, He has something in His hand. (Upon the testimony of two or three, a thing is established), and Sister White identifies that all three of the angels, when they arrive, have “writings” in their hands. And in Revelation 10, when the first Angel descended on August 11, 1840, He had a little book open in His hand.  So that is four references that tell you that when the Angel of Revelation 18 descended at 9/11, that He had something in His hand, that, as a student of prophecy, you are required to “eat”.

“Thy words were found and I did eat them. And thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of my heart for I’m called by thy name, O Lord God of hosts.” The message that is eaten at 9/11 was profound, and takes you back to the “Old Paths”. Then you see Islam. You see the Seven Times.

The book, the Bible is opened up on so many Lines, it’s unreal, but it produces a testing process that concludes with the First Disappointment. Verse 16, “Thy words were found.” Verse 17, “I sat not in the assembly of the mockers nor rejoiced. I sat alone because of thy hand, for thou hath filled me with indignation.”

The separation process there of April 19, 1844 for the Millerites, and the separation process of July 18, 2020 for us, are being illustrated by Jeremiah, and both are accomplished by God’s hand. The one, the Millerites, He held His hand over a mistake [on the 1843 Chart that affected] some of the figures. In our history, we disregarded the hand He had raised in 1844, saying, “Time shall be no longer.” In verse 18, it says, “Why is my pain perpetual in my wound incurable, which refuses to be healed? Wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar and as waters that fail?”

This is locking-in the history of Habakkuk 2 with both Millerite history and our history, and Habakkuk 2 cannot be separated from the parable of the 10 virgins. It’s the same “Tarrying Time” in both illustrations. And in that regard, when Jeremiah in verse 18 is saying, “Wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar?”, he’s referencing the First Disappointment where in the Millerite history, the vision “tarried”, but they were commanded to “wait”, for it would “not lie”.

So Jeremiah is referencing that history for the Millerites, and for us. And in verse 19, it says, “Therefore, thus saith the Lord, if thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shall stand before me. And if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shall be as my mouth. Let them return unto thee, but return not thou unto them. And I will make thee unto this people a fenced, brazen wall, and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee, for I am with thee to save thee and to deliver thee, saith the Lord.”

Here’s the issue that I’m wanting us to see, I hope, and was the whole point of this presentation here, from my perspective.

In verse 19, the Lord promises that if you’ll return, you become His mouth, and you’d be made a “brazen wall”. And God’s people become His mouth, His voice, His spokesmen at the Sunday law. At the Sunday law, the “wall” of Separation of Church and State is taken down. And at that very same point in time, God’s people, “the ensign”, are made a “brazen wall”. But, you have to return unto Christ for that to happen.

And here’s the part that I’m afraid that we’re not understanding about how the “voice of God” accomplishes the sanctification within our hearts and minds.

If you take the Millerite history, which was a history of obedience, they had to return to their former zeal. They had, with pure heart, pure motivations, no [error], nothing that we can hang on them of the human. They had proclaimed the message of April 19th of 1843, but it failed. And then they are told that they must return to that former zeal and intensity. And if they do so, they will be God’s spokesmen, His mouth, His voice. And Sister White comments on that. [As a whole] they never could quite get back to that former zeal, but some did. And they moved into the Most Holy Place with Christ in 1844.

But there wasn’t enough momentum, or whatever, for them to finish the work of the third angel. And they ended up going into the “wilderness” of Laodicea, where they all died.

Before God takes His people into the promised land… What I’m saying here is something that is much more serious if you’re not seeing the truth that the Millerites were Philadelphians and we were Laodiceans. If you can’t see that they, in a pure heart, made a mistake that was God’s plan, and us, with an impure heart, made an error that wasn’t God’s plan, then we won’t see the seriousness of being called to “return”.

And what I mean by that is when the Lord, when the “voice of the Archangel” began to “resurrect” the Two Witnesses in July of 2023, the call was, “You must return to the intensity and the zeal (however you want to describe it), that you had just before July 18th, 2020.

To ask the Millerites to do that was hard enough. They never quite reached that full return to the intensity that they once had. But they were being asked to go back to an experience that was free from human imperfections. We’re being asked to go back to an experience that was based upon human imperfection. We’re being called to go back to an experience that was based upon God’s Word that got sidetracked, and to sort through what parts of that experience before July 18th, 2020 needs to be retained and what parts need to be set aside [is too much trouble].

If you’re not seeing the reversal of that Waymark, one was for [Millerite] Philadelphians and one was for us Laodiceans, and you’re not getting the implication of what that means, then you’re not hearing “the voice of the Lord”, because that is the bottom line of this awakening that He accomplishes when He calls the dead, dry bones back to life.

The dead, dry bones, they say, we’re separated, we’re lost. Ezekiel’s told to send them the message of the “four winds”, and that’ll make them “stand up”. When they stand up, they realize that they have to pray Daniel 2 and Daniel 9. To not understand the depth of repentance that we have to accomplish is to not hear the voice of the Lord.

And so, what I wanted to put in place this Sabbath, and I met my goals, whether it was clear or whether you’re understanding that the significance I’m placing upon this is really that valid or not, is that the [prophetic] “voice of the Lord”, that we have to understand, has to become second nature to us. [Like as with his late wife…] We have to be able to hear that laugh in a crowd and automatically know whose laugh it is.

And the Lord has done that since July 2023, as He introduced Himself as the “Truth”, and as He put emphasis upon the First and the Last, and as He began to unseal the “hidden history” of Daniel 11, verse 40. And He’s making it clear to all who want to see, that there’s no way that the conclusions that are being derived from these passages of scripture are of human invention. They’re too interconnected. They’re too profound to be of human devising.

And once we reach that level of understanding, if that is truly where we’re supposed to be (and I believe it is), then some of the questions that come up from time to time about what should I share if I have the opportunity to speak to a Seventh-day Adventist? What should I share if I have the opportunity to speak to a non-Adventist? Should I be spending my time even interacting with Seventh-day Adventists?

The answer is, when you see this message as the voice of the Lord, this message that began in July, 2023, at some point in time, you must, you will, you have to recognize that there is no other message to be proclaimed to anyone, anywhere, but this message. And this message needs to get proclaimed loudly and clearly from the rooftops now, because time is wrapping up.

Our human flesh says, the danger of doing that is, well, what if Trump doesn’t get elected? After all, we were wrong about July 18th, 2020. I’m saying that so perhaps you can follow the implications of what I’m saying about the need to return. We need to return to a position to where we know Jesus’ voice is in this message, and that there is no other message that anyone on planet Earth needs to hear, but this message, that they might hear and have time to get ready.

And for us to hesitate because of our past experience, precludes us from being made His mouthpiece and “a brazen wall” at the soon-coming Sunday law.

Shall we pray?

Heavenly Father, we thank You for this Sabbath day. We thank You that we’re allowed to live in these times. We want to be among those that follow You whithersoever You go, and we follow You because we know Your voice. We need to understand Your voice, not just at the intellectual level, but to where it’s the only voice in our minds that’s guiding and directing our every move, for time is short, the time is at hand.

Help us to understand these things in that fashion that we might be among those that receive the Seal and are lifted up as an ensign in the very near future, in Jesus’ name, Amen.

Moderator: Amen. Thank you, Elder Jeff.

Question:

Happy Sabbath, everyone. So my question, Brother Jeff, is regarding the mouth being the Lord’s mouth, as in Jeremiah. There are some who have been of our group and are part of the Three Angels Messages Fellowship, on and off, not sure if they’re here right now, but the thinking in the other group that they go to is that the verse in Daniel 11, I think it’s 33, “and they that understand among the people shall instruct many, yet they shall fall by the sword and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil many days”.

Daniel 11, verse 33, thats what the message is, “they that understand and shall instruct many. “ The instruction that they will give is about July 18th. And I’m not sure what that instruction might be, that whether it’s a message of we were wrong and we needed to repent, or whether it’s just that the Lord led people to believe about July 18th and it still stands, which it does. It stands as a disappointment, our First Disappointment in this time, and yet I think also, “they shall instruct many” is what you’re saying, versus starting at verse one of chapter 11, yes?

Jeff:

Yes, and early on (there’s a great deal of this, of course, that I don’t understand, this has all been opening up to me like everyone else), but early on I was talking with a brother who I’m sure is listening right now, and more than once I think I’ve made this case to him, is that those people that were in the movement before July 18, the majority of them, if we’re going to be honest (and I’m not so sure that we’re always going to be honest anymore), but the majority of them would have to admit that they held the role that I played in this movement in, I’ll say, high regard, just to make my point.

They could tell that the prophetic message that had been assembled through Future for America was too big, too broad to be a human invention, and they could easily see the parallel of the work that Future for America did with the work that the Millerites did. They could see the parallel movement, so on and so forth.

And so my logic with this brother when we talked about it, was that anyone that was in the movement before July 18th, that had that kind of aptitude, that they could see the role that Future for America had accomplished from 1989 up to that period of time, should be able to recognize that Future for America went dead silent for three years.

And when they came back, the methodology that had previously allowed those people to be supportive of what Future for America was doing, that methodology was being used again, same methodology, nothing had changed, but that it was digging out and revealing truths that had not been revealed previously.

And my comment to this brother (as we’ve discussed this a couple of times), was, those people are going to be without excuse in the judgment because they’ve already assented to the idea that there was a modern person that was used to be the mouth, “the voice of the Lord”, in this time period, and now for whatever reason, they’re rejecting that influence, they’re taking it out of the [leadership] position that the Lord had put that voice into (which I personally am not threatened by that, I’m just being accurate to what’s taking place with these messages).

So when there’s a group out there, like you suggest, and they have some applications about “instructing many” from the period that was a period of papal supremacy, we’re not there yet. Number one, that passage (the only way you can honestly apply that passage in Daniel 11, verses 30 to 36), is the work that God’s people did during the Dark Ages. And it’s not until the Sunday Law that the United States restores the power that the papacy had in times past.

At that point, the history [of the 1260] that they’re pointing to now, saying that they’re fulfilling now would be applicable, but it isn’t even applicable at this point. That’s identifying something that’s just about to take place, sure enough. But my point is that the message that we’re sharing now, it is so far above and beyond those ideas that are out there, that we’re going to be held accountable for rejecting the light of prophecy if we don’t snap out of it and get focused on what’s being revealed by the Lion of the Tribe of Judah [right now].

The message that we have presented, if you’re reading through the articles, it opens up Revelation 9 like it’s never been opened up before. And it takes the entire book of Revelation and brings it together into something that’s now being unsealed. And it’s demonstrated to being unsealed in the “hidden history” of Daniel 11:40. And it’s opening up the truth of Daniel 2 being the first mention of the Kingdoms of Bible Prophecy” and agreeing with Revelation 17’s last message. It’s identifying the phenomenon of “the eighth being of the seven” in such a profound way that it’s amazing. It’s opening up the very unfolding of the struggle between the Democrats and the Republicans in the United States, and between the United States and the globalists at the world-level.

It’s describing the role of Adventism as the covenant people that are being passed-by, that have been “wandering in the wilderness”, that is only a symbol of death. No one that came out of Egypt that ended up in the wilderness, lived [other than Joshua and Caleb]. There’s no reference of Laodicean Adventism prevailing. But there are references of individuals within the Adventist church awakening, that’s for sure.

But the message that has been opened up since July of 2023 is so broad, so deep, and so interconnected, that the idea that they’re suggesting, that the work they’re doing by doing exploits there in verse 33 of Daniel 11, [doing] for God [before] July 18th, it’s too singular and too unfinished, that the Lord is opening it all up now. It’s the unsealing of “every vision”. There is no other Movement on planet earth that is touching so many of these Lines of Truth simultaneously, and tying them together.

That’s the logic that I was sharing with this friend. The people that were in this movement, they had seen the profundity of the opening of the prophetic message through Future for America before July 18th. They’re familiar with the application, the logic that was used, and for them to disregard that the same application and logic is now being used, and that it’s being used in such a broad way, is to seal their death warrant.

Moderator:

Pat, you’re next.

… Yeah. So I’m wondering if you’ve, I know you’ve thought about it, but I don’t know if you’ve said anything about it yet. After Parminder and Tess took out most of Future for America, Incorporated, and then we got off onto another track that caused us to have the train wreck at July 18th, 2020. If we had steadfastly hung onto the Spirit of Prophecy counsels against time setting and avoided that train wreck (we drove right into a stone wall on July 18th), have you thought about where Future for America might have gone if we had not ran into July 18th? …even after Parminder and Tess had taken most of the ministry out with them?

I know that now we’re kind of like a tree that went through a winter three years long, lost all of our leaves, and the Lord is putting us back together now. He’s given us more light. The tree of truth is putting out more leaves and flowers and fruit than ever almost before.

Where do you think we would have gone? Were you looking into the future before July 18th, or were we already locked into July 18th, on that course, right after Parminder and Tess left? Or were you thinking that Future for America would go someplace else? Just wondering.

Jeff:

That’s one of those questions that, for me, it sounds like one of those questions that are okay, I guess, to consider. But you can raise the argument that when Jesus walked among men, you can say, what if all the Jews in Israel were waiting for Him as the Messiah, and they accepted Him as the Messiah? Would they still have participated in His crucifixion? Because He had to die to confirm the covenant.

I don’t know what to say there. I don’t know how to answer your question. It’s, in a way, it’s kind of just an exercise, a mental exercise. I don’t see any outcome to it. I don’t know how we could have got around [July 18]..

That was my thing about what I wanted to try to convey about the discussion William and I have had, I think that we’ve had. The idea that we were disobedient at our First Disappointment, it’s pretty much baked into the whole story. Because the story of the Millerites being obedient at the First Disappointment does not deny that by the time that they get to 1863, they’re in full-blown rebellion. And it doesn’t take away the fact that Inspiration was careful to mark that in 1856 they went into a Laodicean condition when they were understood to be Philadelphian before that.

So the transition from Philadelphia to Laodicea becomes a Waymark in the first fulfillment of the Parable of the Ten Virgins that has to be repeated at the end, but they were Philadelphians. They weren’t going to be disobedient to the Lord. They were following the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. But we have no claim to be Philadelphians. We came out of the Laodicean Seventh-day Adventist Church and our disappointment was caused by a proclamation given through Laodiceans. And Laodiceans are blind. We couldn’t have known. We’re “naked, blind, poor, miserable”, and one other attribute I’m forgetting, “wretched”.

But we had to go through that in order to parallel the transition of 1856 from Laodicea to Philadelphia. And we had to do that because the two Horns of the United States are part of the Earth Beast. And the Earth Beast is going to form the Image of the Beast. And the beast of Revelation 17 is “the eighth and is of the seven”. Therefore, the Earth Beast has to [also] be a beast that is “the eighth and is of the seven. And therefore, the two Horns on the Earth Beast have to have a manifestation of “the eighth and is of the seven”. And therefore, our Laodicean condition at that First Disappointment was securing to us the possibility of being among “the eighth” of the Protestant Horn. That’s baked into it.

I don’t know what to tell you, except that Future for America was not obedient before July 18th, 2020. We were Laodiceans. And in spite of my Laodicean condition, and the condition of Laodicea being with those people that were following what we were doing at Future for America; in spite of that, the Lord overruled and allowed us to [now] recognize some of the most profound biblical truths that had never been recognized since the Millerite history.

But those truths are now being taken to a level. I mean, I still haven’t wrapped my mind around the illustration of the two 2520s being the illustration of God purifying a Temple and combining divinity with humanity. These truths that are being revealed now, they are so broad, so deep, so profound that it had to be part of the formula of “the eighth that is of the seven”. It had to be there.

And Laodicea and Philadelphia are there, and we were teaching truths that upheld this years before that. We’d already seen before July 18th that the Jewish church in the time of Christ was “Laodicea”; that the whole history of the Seven Churches had been accomplished in Ancient Israel. And we had already seen that right there in the Church of Laodicea of Ancient Israel, when they were going to crucify Christ, they were Laodiceans. But at the same time, there were Philadelphians, there were Ephesians, the beginning of the Christian Church.

We had already seen that the Seventh Church of Ancient Israel had the First Church of Christianity [within it]. It was “the eighth and is of the seven”. So the Lord had put things in place in spite of our Laodicean condition that we needed to know in advance of being “awakened” in 2023.

But there’s no doubts that we may have about whether the message that’s being unfolded now is valid or not. That’s one thing that needs to be overcome, but that’s just the first step. We have to get to the point to where not only do we recognize that this is the message, but [we have to get to the point] where we have the guts to begin sharing that wherever we go, like the Millerites did when they came to understand the [Midnight Cry] message of Samuel Snow. I don’t know that we’re there yet.

And I’m saying that I don’t think we’re there yet, because we really don’t understand that this methodology of “Line-upon-Line” of the three steps of “Truth”, of Jesus being the Alpha and Omega, of Him being “Palmoni”, of Him being the “Wonderful Linguist”, that is “His voice”. He is the Word. And we have to be able to look at His Word, and recognize that Word for Who and What it is.

Anyway, I’m sermonizing now. Next question. Sorry. Brother Daniel.

Daniel:

Okay. All right. So while you were speaking earlier, my wife asked me a question, which prompted a train of thought for me. She asked me, well, so could the hidden history be the hidden manna of Revelation 2?

So I went and looked at it, reminded myself of where it was at. And as we, I’m sure we all know that you can understand the letters to the churches at various levels. And especially verses 14 through 17. Okay. It says, “but I have a few things against thee because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. To him that will I give the eat of the hidden manna and will give him a stone and on the stone a name written, which no man knoweth.”

Now just commenting on these, I have believed ever since the breakup there between Future for America and Parminder and company, that this history there of Balaam casting a stumbling block before the children of Israel, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, was fulfilled in the Movement after, well, in the spring and summer of 2018, say it that way.

You know, it was Parminder that started this Movement on the track of time-setting. And so, “Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly.” It seems to me that the repentance there needs to be the repentance of this time-setting that Parminder, represented by Balaam, got put into the Movement there, I’ll just say it that way. And that unless we repent, we can’t eat of the “hidden manna”, which is, to me, it seems to be at least this “hidden history” that you’re speaking of.

So, you know, it was, I mean, to me, those who still hang on to July 18th, 2020, being a valid prediction, are actually (whether they want to admit it or not), they’re still hanging on to Paminderism. Maybe I can say it that way.

One other matter (not related directly to this is), just very quickly here, I wanted to ask you about this. I think it’s pretty plain, I guess you would say, simple. In Daniel 11, the phrase (you see it there in verse 3 and verse 16 and verse 36, it’s pretty plain, it’s speaking of the papacy. When it says that “he shall do according to his will”. Okay, so when it says “he shall do according to his will”, there, verse 3 has to have something to do either with the papacy directly, or at least someone who has the spirit of the papacy.

And the “mighty king” there, who would that mighty king be? Would that be, in some ways, it seems like it would be the papacy, or would that be Trump with the spirit of the papacy? That would be my guess. That’s all I had.

Jeff:

Okay, that would be your guess? And I mean, not just a guess, it’s verse 2, you’re at Cyrus. Verse 3, you’re at Alexander the Great. And historically, there were eight Persian kings between Cyrus and Alexander the Great. Eight, whether people have settled into it or not at this point, “eight” is a symbol of the Image of the Beast.

When the Lord opened up Revelation 17 (the last reference to the kingdoms of Bible prophecy), it was represented by the first reference to the kingdoms of Bible prophecy in Daniel chapter 2. And what they both together represented is that there were eight kingdoms. The number “eight” becomes a symbol of the Image of the Beast test, because Daniel 2, the first reference, is Nebuchadnezzar’s Image of the Beast. There are eight of them.

And the testing process that leads to the Sunday Law is the Image of the Beast test. And those eight Persian kings lead to the Sunday Law, which is the threefold union when the dragon, beast, and false prophet come together at the Sunday Law in the United States.

And so the “mighty king” that stands up is Alexander the Great. He’s the 10th. But if you project back to the “rich king” of verse 3, you’ve got Trump, who’s the 6th, who’s going to be the 8th, that’s of the 7. You have the logic (from Cyrus to Alexander the Great, and the 8 Persian kings in between), to say that the “first” king is Trump, therefore the “last” king is going to be Trump, but he’s going to be in a different setting. And what’s happened with Trump, in the process of those eight Persian kings, is that he has formed the Image of the Beast in the United States. He’s reflecting the character, the structure, of the papacy.

And in verse 16 and verse 36, it’s the papacy that does “according his will”. And the more you look, you find (in this final history of the United States), prophetic truth that illustrates prophetic truths that take place after the Sunday law.

The world sets up an Image of the Beast after the Sunday law, but the United States sets up an Image of the Beast before the Sunday law. In the history of the setting up of the Image of the Beast from September 11th to the Sunday law in the United States, the Latter Rain is “sprinkled”. From the setting up of the world Image of the Beast from the Sunday law until human probation closes, the Latter Rain is “poured out”.

The United States, before the Sunday law, sets up an Image of the Beast, then they get the world to back the Sunday law, and force the world to set up the Image of the Beast.

The papacy is “given” the dragon power for “services rendered” in the scripture. And that’s why after the United States is conquered in verse 41, the papacy takes control of “Egypt”, the dragon, in verse 42 and 43.

Therefore, when we look at the warfare between Trump as apostate Protestantism, and the “dragon power” as the Democrat Party, we can know with certainty that the Republican Party prevails over the “dragon” party, because the dragon is “given to” the papacy for “services rendered”, and then the United States is forming an “image” of the papacy.

So when you’re taking this “according to his will” and applying it there with Alexander the Great, it being the 10th (“10” being a “test”) of 10 kings, and the first was Trump, I think it’s a no-brainer that it’s Trump, and that it’s his manifestation of the Image of the Beast that has been formed in the previous eight Persian kings before the Sunday law. And as far as we were coming to this matter, I agree that all these, they’re set, when the closer you look in the books of Revelation and Daniel, you’ll see certain truths that are to be unsealed at the end of time, and they all go together to make up “The Revelation of Jesus Christ”.

Daniel:

Amen. Yeah, in the Spirit of Prophecy there in “The Great Controversy”, either page 49 or 50, it does clearly apply that phrase “to do according to his will” to the papacy.

Moderator: Marilyn, you’re next.

Question:

Brother Jeff, thank you for your message. My comment is in reference to “the voice of the Lord”. If we go to Psalms 29, and I’m not going to read all of it, but it says, “Give unto the Lord almighty, give unto the Lord glory and strength, give unto the Lord glory due to his name, worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. The voice of the Lord is upon many waters…”. So if we go on to read the rest of the Psalm it says, “The voice of the Lord is powerful. The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars”, and “the voice”, I’m skipping down, “the voice of the Lord divided the flames. The voice of the Lord shaketh the wilderness. The voice of the Lord maketh the hinds to calve.” And so my question is in context, is this “voice of the Lord” the same, in the same context, as “the voice of the Lord” in Daniel 11:1 to 15?

Jeff:

Yes, “the voice of the Lord” is His Prophetic Word. He IS the Word. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” He is the Creator, and through the Word, all things were created. And it’s a truth that is maybe more difficult for some to internalize than others, but Jesus IS the Bible. This is Him, Jesus is the Word, its absolutely essential to fully believe.

Even the truth that is to be “The Truth” that’s opened up to God’s people in the last days, where Sister White saw that the “doctrine of the incarnation is invested with a soft halo”, the truth about Jesus being “the combination of divinity and humanity” is in the Bible. The Bible is God’s divine Word, but it was recorded by fallen human beings. You have the “incarnation” represented in the Bible itself. And therefore, when we begin to believe that the Word of God IS Christ, it IS the Bible, it IS “His voice”, then we realize there isn’t any area in the Bible that isn’t “His voice”.

I don’t think people recognize some of the implications of that truth. For instance, in the opening of Revelation in chapter one, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ”, the Father gave [the Word] to Him, and He takes it all the way down to John, who was going to send this message of “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” to the churches. And He’s identifying that His divine message, it came from the Father, that was given to Christ, that was given to angels, that was given to men, that was sent to the churches, that it represents the combination of divinity with humanity, and that it is sacred, it’s powerful, and if it’s to be rejected, to reject that Word is death.

So that’s what I was inferring earlier. Anyone that was in the Movement before July 18th, 2020, the greatest majority of us that were in that Movement, had at least a little bit of acceptance to the idea that the Lord had used Future for America, myself, but Future for America, to present the Prophetic Message that was unsealed in 1989. They had to see that. Even if they didn’t fully believe it, they knew that in the environment of the meetings and the work of Future for America, they intellectually understood that, everyone believed that, and they moved forward. It wasn’t anything that was argued about, it was just set.

So here, in July, 2023, there’s “a voice” calling out to the “dead, dry bones”, saying, “Awake!, Stand on your feet!” Now, the test of “the voice of the Lord” is once again being brought home. Are you going to accept that “voice” as the “voice of the Prophetic Word” that is the combination in divinity with humanity?

Because when you look at the humanity that’s proclaiming that “voice”, you have every reason in the world to not trust in that humanity. After all, he led out in a false prediction on July 18th, 2020. You have every reason to have a doubt about that being “the voice from the wilderness” that in July of 2023 began to cry out.

But the reality of it is that’s part of “the test”, “recognizing the Lord’s voice”. And the “Lord’s voice” is in these messages. And if you’re going to be a mouth for the Lord at the Midnight Cry, when the vision no longer tarries, you have to return to the fervor, or the commitment, that you had before July 18th, 2020.

But our commitment and our fervor of July 18th was founded on Laodicean blindness. So we have to go deeper. We have to reach some kind of consecrated experience through our own efforts, “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” We have to reach something that surpasses where we were at in June and July of 2020, and somehow connect it with the experience that the Millerites had before their First Disappointment.

And I think it’s a much deeper call to repentance, confession, consecration than we’re aware of.

Questioner: Thank you for that. And I see that voice.

Jeff:

Do you remember when Abraham had to take his son to sacrifice him? He had to know that “voice” because when you look at it, that voice was specific and it was distinct.

Questioner:

I see this Psalm 29 as exactly that, “the voice of the Lord, the voice of the Lord is powerful.” So thank you for connecting that.

Jeff:

Abraham is the classic example of our need to understand God’s voice. He knew it. He knew, he’s a symbol of someone that knew God’s voice. He knew His voice told him to not do human sacrifice, but he knew the very same voice that said, go sacrifice your son. He was in a dilemma because he knew God’s voice. I don’t [think we’re there yet.] We need to reach that dilemma. I think some of us may still be “treading water”, uncertain about whether we’re hearing God’s voice or not. And it’s illogical to me at this point, it’s illogical.

Questioner:

Right, right. And back at the split, and I think there was that, two voices, you know, the voice of the other side, and he said, isn’t it where it said, “today, if you hear my voice?”. Pardon my error.

Jeff:

Yeah, and so for me, it’s absolutely clear. Can we hear “the voice”? Can we discern “the voice”? Do we know what “the voice” is telling us? And will we be obedient to “the voice”? The “day of provocation”, when they hardened their hearts, was when they rejected the message of Joshua and Caleb. That becomes the classic “day of provocation”. And that was at the first rebellion at Kadesh, and at the second rebellion at Kadesh, they’re going to go into the Promised Land after 40 years, but both of those carry with them the “day of provocation”.

It’s when we should “hear the voice of the Lord”. And at the moving into the Promised Land after the second Kadesh, the first obstacle was Jericho, to bring down the walls of Jericho. And in 1863, Laodicea and Seventh-day Adventists “rebuilt Jericho”, and received “the curse of Jericho”. And that was the first Kadesh in the history of the three angels, 1863. We’re now back on the verge of the Sunday law, which is the second Kadesh.

And here we go into the Promised Land. But here, right before the Sunday law, but right after we’ve been resurrected in that history, the statement is, “harden not your hearts as in the day of provocation”. You gotta “hear the voice of the Lord”.

Questioner:

Brother Jeff, one more thing that came to mind there. If we go back to 1888 with Minneapolis and “the rejection”. So that was a voice of error. And then we saw in 1988, it was a voice that was trying to commemorate a centennial of error. And that voice in itself had no light. So if I go back to Jericho, they march, and on the final march, they had to shout. So we’re seeing “the voice”, and I see the voice also being connected to the Loud Cry. So, if you can find it, that would be my final thought. If you can comment there also, please. Thank you.

Jeff:

I follow your logic. I have no comment. I mean, other than what we’re saying that this, “the revelation of the voice of the Lord” is something that we’re going to have to take seriously. It’s what’s testing us. I said last Sabbath, and I may have not been clear, I may have been talking too fast or whatever. You may not have got it, but I meant what I said, I think it can be proved prophetically.

Sister White says, “The formation of the Image of the Beast is the great test for the people of God by which their eternal destiny will be decided. This is the test they must pass before they’re sealed.” So the formation of the Image of the Beast, the coming together of Church and State in the United States, it’s a “visual test”. We can show that the “second test” in Daniel chapter two is a “visual test”. The second test in Daniel chapter one was his healthy appearance as opposed to those that had been eating the diet of Babylon. It’s a visual test.

We need to see that Church and State are coming together in the United States, but also, and more importantly, we need to see that the details of the formation of the Image of the Beast are being formed in God’s prophetic Word through His Word. Through the action of the Lion of the tribe of Judah, He has unsealed the Seventh Seal. And in so doing, He’s unsealed the “hidden history” of Daniel 11 verse 40, and He plugged those first 15 verses into that history.

And the light that is coming out of all that is, is absolutely profound. And if you don’t see the work of the Lion of the tribe of Judah in bringing these truths together, then you’re not seeing the formation of the Image of the Beast test that you must see. The test you must pass first, is to recognize the “Truth” from God’s Word, and thereafter recognize the truth of His Word being fulfilled in the [current] history around you.

And we are very prone to just take the nice view of the historical events that prophecy is illustrating for us and leave it there. And in so doing, we miss the very hands-on work that Jesus is doing. That is the work of Him putting His divinity into our humanity.

And that is the test of the formation of the Image of the Beast that you and I must pass, because if we don’t pass that, then the “Image of Christ” is not formed within us. And that’s the test.

Moderator:

Larry, you’re, you’re next up.

Larry: Happy Sabbath,

Jeff: Happy Sabbath.

Question:

I was just curious. I have a couple of questions. When you were talking about Revelation 16, and you were going into verse 17, the great city that falls into three parts, we have always understood from Revelation 17, that the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet all co-reign, so could that city that falls into three parts be that dragon, beast, and false prophet that are co-reigning at that time?

Jeff:

That’s how I understand it. They’re called in verse 19, “Great Babylon”. That’s the final manifestation of Modern Babylon, the dragon, the beast, and false prophet with the papacy ruling over the relationship. And that’s why this pronouncement of “voices, thundering and lightnings”, it’s not the “earthquake” there. It’s a greater quake, and it’s the destruction of all the kingdoms of the earth.

Whereas the “earthquake” of chapter 11 is the earthquake of the United States being overthrown as illustrated in the French revolution, when France, one of the 10 nations of pagan Rome, was overthrown by the French Revolution.

This [earthquake] here is the end of it all. This is the end of the Seven Last Plagues. And these expressions; “voices, thundering and lightnings”, they lead you through the progressive history that begins when He’s unsealing His book. And when He reaches the Seventh Seal, then you’re going to have an “earthquake”. You’re going to have the Sunday law in the United States.

And the next time you see the “voices thunders and lightnings”, you’re in the history of the close of the Executive Judgment when Michael stands up.

And then where you’ve taken this in chapter 16 is, it’s the preliminary to the Second Coming of Christ. And it’s progressive. These expressions are progressive. So if that’s the case, then that would allow us to make the same parallel we make with Christ and the papacy; the Lines that you draw, the counterfeit of Christ, right? You know what I’m talking about?

Larry: Right. The line of Christ. Yeah.

Jeff:

And so would that allow us then, what I hear being said, is a similar type of thing that’s going on with revelation 17 where “the eighth is of the seven”. We’re saying that there’s two Lines. There’s the Line of the United States, and there’s the Line of the papacy, that is basically being fulfilled in that structure.

When I lay out that structure, the logic that makes sense to me is you have to come to grips with Revelation 13:11, when the United States speaks as a dragon, you’ve got to show that that is the Sunday law. And then you have to show that Church and State come together in the United States leading up to, and reaching a conclusion at the Sunday law.

Therefore, you have an “Image of the Beast testing time” that first takes place in the United States, that leads to the [universal] Sunday law. And then in verse 14 of Revelation 13, after the Sunday law in verse 11, the United States forces the world to set up an Image of the Beast. At this Sunday law, the Beast becomes “the eighth that is of the seven”, the Beast being the Catholic church.

But before that Sunday law, the United States is going to form an Image of the Beast, and it’s going to produce this phenomenon in the United States that is going to immediately be duplicated at the Sunday law at the threefold union. So the Image of the Beast, [then the] Mark of the Beast, first in the United States, then the world.

Larry:

Okay. And then if July 18 is the First Disappointment, of which I agree, should we expect a “Great Disappointment”? And if we do expect the “Great Disappointment”, do we necessarily, if the First Disappointment was reversed, could it be that the “Great Disappointment” is reversed as well?

Jeff:

I think we have to expect a “Great Disappointment” for sure.

Larry:

Well, so what I mean by that is if in the Millerite timeframe, it happened to them, they were greatly disappointed. Not to say that we wouldn’t be disappointed, but it doesn’t necessarily indicate that we would be the ones. It could be that, the “Great Disappointment” is that we’re watching the world collapse. And I’m asking what your thoughts on that are.

Jeff:

I guess I don’t have any. The reason I hesitated the first time you asked it is I was thinking you were saying if July 18th was a failed prediction, does that mean that the great disappointment is going to be another failed prediction? I was wondering if that’s what you’re saying, but that’s not evidently what you’re meaning. Good for you.

I would go back to Millerite history to try to rebuff any argument along that line. You probably know that through the years I’ve qualified my guesses about what the disappointment at the Sunday Law is. My standard response is that we’re going to be disappointed on how few people that we thought were going to be standing faithful are [actually] faithful at that time. And that would be a disappointment among God’s people. And I kind of think it should be among God’s people.

I’m trying to think in my mind as I’m speaking, of the disappointments that are illustrated in the Reform Lines. They’re pretty much always focused on God’s people. It’d be kind of different for the last one in our history not to be focused on us.

Larry:

Okay. And then finally, it was mentioned earlier that it was Parmender’s group that caused the problems with July 18. And thereafter, what’s going on represented a continuation of Parmender’s antics. And I’m wondering if you could address, and I’m hesitant to name anyone. But I do feel like it’s kind of the elephant in the room all the time, is that we have a group that Theodore is leading that is claiming to be this message. And I’m wondering if you can address that at all.

Jeff:

I don’t think that it’s Parmender’s antics that are continuing. I think it’s Theodore’s group’s antics that are continuing.

Larry: Yea.

Jeff:

Well, you’re referring to, in my mind, at least a couple of things there. When I look back at how this movement got scattered, Parmender’s there, but there were other influences there as well that were not Parmender. And I see more of a shotgun of problems there.

But I will note this, if you’re not familiar with it. Parmender, being from the UK, actually came [to the USA] for a year, maybe a year and a half. And he worked in Seattle, Tacoma, back in 1994 and 1995, in that time frame. And the first time I ever did a public presentation was at a camp meeting at Hope International. And I did “The Prophetic Pattern”. I didn’t do Daniel eleven. And Parmender happened to be there. He was living in Seattle. And he introduced himself to me. And I don’t remember that. But he reminded me of that afterwards.

So what I’m saying is, the very first time that this message was spoken publicly, he was there. And we went to London for a long time. We were working with a group in London. And those meetings were going for months and months. Not simultaneous, but I mean, we’d go back and forth to London and have meetings. And he showed up at one of those as well. But I hadn’t seen him for a long period of time. And I barely knew him. And that’s where we got started.

So what I’m saying is, if we’re going to place him as one of the categories of the negative influence, he was placed right at the very beginning.

Larry:

OK, so that is some kind of connection to the role that he played even before 2014, when I guess we realized that’s when it came in.

Jeff:

But there were other problems along the way. And one of them that came up, and should probably be addressed, is, repeatedly, it got to be a common thing that someone would find some special truth, and then they would self-identify as one of the Millerite pioneers. That became a problem because, how many “Samuel Snows” can you have? So to me, though, if you’re going to, humanly [speaking], and I’m not a judge, if you’re going to write that up, it’s human pride.

Larry: OK, so pride.

Jeff:

Pride was there doing its job in spite of any false doctrine that Parminder might be trying to insinuate or openly introduce. And I have not. I mean absolutely not [following Theodore]. I was bound off from following Theodore before July 18th for reasons of our interactions here in Arkansas, okay? There was a line crossed that there’s no way that I could have sympathy for his prophetic applications, and this is before that time period, and so I haven’t listened to anything that he’s saying, all right? So I don’t know how to…

Moderator:

I think what Larry’s trying to communicate is not you necessarily, but just that Theodore has more of an influence on this group that we have here, potentially, not saying for sure, but where Parminder doesn’t any longer because they’re so far off-base. Parminder’s group is doing this LGBTQ, everything’s fine, we can have [whatever we want]… Yeah. So with Theodore, maybe there’s still some influence and maybe it’s not direct, maybe it’s indirect or from the past, because Theodore had some messages that were true and beautiful that we were able to understand from him. It seems like to us, anyway, that Theodore potentially has more of an influence at this present date on the whole group, is what we’re saying.

Jeff:

Well, that’s where I was getting to, okay, and it’s this. So I haven’t listened to anything that he’s saying, but what I have done is I’ve watched this message that started in July 2023 unfold in a personal way. I get up in the morning and I’ll write some articles and I’ll realize that I’m going to add this little thing into the article, I’d never seen it before, it’s a minor thing, it’s no big deal, but it’s kind of cool, I’m going to throw it out there just to keep the interest up and I’ll do that, okay? I’ll add a new [idea], something I’d never seen before, into an article.

And then three or four weeks later, I’ll realize that the Lord now wants to open up a more clear, more profound truth, whatever, but then I had to throw that little tidbit in two or three weeks earlier in order to prepare a platform for what was going to come next. So I’ve watched His hand in orchestrating these articles and in other ways that He’s done the same thing.

So without knowing anything that Theodore may be teaching, I’m here to tell you that I guarantee 100%, that the breadth of this message, the rapidity in which it is spreading around the world, and the serious implications that are involved with this message. You may not realize it…., and I’m not bragging about what I’m going to say, and I’m not lifting myself up, I’m just being clear.

I have put the Pope of Rome in a negative light in these articles. I’ve put the Seventh-day Adventist Church in a negative light in these articles. I’ve put the Republican Party in a negative light in these articles. I’ve put the Democratic Party in a negative light in these articles. I’ve put Islam in a negative light. I’ve put the globalists in a negative light.

This message is addressing everyone out there, and it’s not flowery or sucking up with flattery to any of them. It’s nailing down their role at the end of the world, and it’s showing an interconnection with their roles that’s never been seen before. And I know without a doubt that there will be, Canadians especially, that will be lost because they’ve determined that the fluff of the numbers of Theodore is something that is at least comparable to what’s being opened up here, and that is total foolishness.

This message is in agreement with everything that Adventism has ever understood about the Loud Cry/Latter Rain message, and it’s airtight, it’s bulletproof. There’s been human imperfections along the way, and there’ll be some more as long as humans are involved, I’m sure. But the broadness of this message that’s been put in place over the past five or six months, whatever it is, there’s no way that that’s going on up there at those Canadian meetings.

Larry:

Thank you. I was just hoping that that would be addressed to some extent, and I appreciate the way you’ve done it. Thank you. Being a Canadian, what I would say though, there are a few people, and I think with some of the message, that are holding on to July 18th. It’s presented in a sort of empathetic way, not that I go and listen or participate. And I think sometimes if a message is false, but the messenger might be presentin that I need pity and I need empathy. And I think maybe some of the Canadian people, they’re trying to emphasize pity versus seeing the message for what it is, that it’s a bunch of numbers and it has no substance. So, you know, this is not a blanket statement. I think it’s a few people that have been lured, and there are some Americans in there too, but I think they’re lured in through giving empathy to the presenter.

Jeff:

Yeah, no doubt that’s true, but whatever it is, we’re going to find, if you step back, I’m sure that you have, maybe everyone’s already done this, but if you’ve stepped back and start looking at some of the logic associated with these truths that are being unsealed; I’ll give you an example.…

The “ensign” that’s lifted up at the Sunday Law, that is the 144,000, they’re going to draw all the world into this Message. They’re going to clarify the issue between Sabbath and Sunday. But Sister White in one place says they’re an “obscure people”. Before they can become an “ensign”, they have to become a people that is the focus of the wrath of those people that are seeking to set up the Image of the Beast. They’re going to have to begin presenting a message that is causing pain in Satan’s kingdom, so much pain that Satan begins to deal with them.

What I’m saying the logic is, is that we have to begin presenting this message and this message alone, and that is part of what will establish us as “the ensign”, as the events that we’re predicting begin to come to pass. Our message will become more powerful and more productive, but it’s a big message. It’s a thorough message, and it’s big enough that there is really no time to be playing around with anyone else’s message.

This is the message that not only is going to give us the message to give to others, but there’s something about this message, when it gets inside us internally, that actually produces a sanctified human being. So the idea that there’s some empathy going on, or any other motivation other than just simply being into false prophecy, I get it, there can be a thousand reasons why people might want to be there, but it isn’t going to stand in the judgment.

Moderator: Daniel, you’re next.

Dan:

A couple of points. First one, as far as knowing or hearing “the voice of the Lord”, there’s a quote here from Patriarchs and Prophets 96, speaking of the antediluvians, Sister White says, “Had the men of that generation obeyed the divine law, they would have recognized the voice of God in the warning of his servant”, the servant being Noah. And Psalm 111 verse 10 says, “A good understanding have all they that do His commandments.”

So it’s a principle that I’ve always believed, and it applies here. If we are not living up to the light that God has given us, obeying His will, we will not know His voice in this message.

And the other thing, speaking to Larry’s question about the next “disappointment”, okay? This is something I’ve seen for years here, and I see it even more now since this subject has come up. I believe that the next disappointment is described in Great Controversy, starting at the bottom of page 608, and covering all of 609. This is in the chapter, The Final Warning, this is the Sunday law chapter, essentially. And this is what it says, “In this time of persecution, the faith of the Lord’s servants will be tried. They have faithfully given the warning, looking to God and to His word alone”… (And notice how this parallels very perfectly what the Millerites went through also.), “God’s spirit moving upon their hearts constrained them to speak. Stimulated with holy zeal, and with a divine impulse strong upon them, they entered upon the performance of their duties without coldly calculating the consequences of speaking to the people the word which the Lord had given them.”

(This is what the Millerites experienced.) “They have not consulted their temporal interests, nor sought to preserve their reputation or their lives. Yet, when the storm of opposition and reproach burst upon them, (Keep in mind this is during the Sunday law crisis), some began to exclaim, had we foreseen the consequences of our words, we would have held our peace.” It’s not the exact same word, but Sister White expresses the same thoughts in regards to the Millerites. If they had known in advance that the Lord was not coming on October 22nd, 1844, they wouldn’t have given the warning message, the Judgment Hour cry.

“They are hedged in with difficulties, Satan assails them with fierce temptations. The work which they have undertaken seems far beyond their ability to accomplish. They are threatened with destruction. The enthusiasm which animated them is gone, yet, (and this reminds me of the Red Sea experience of the Israelites), “…yet they cannot turn back…” (Then, and of course, the Israelites were disappointed at the Red Sea, weren’t they?) “Then feeling their utter helplessness, they flee to the Mighty One for strength.”…Here, you can see, they’re being successful.

This is going to be, this will not be a disappointment where it’s a failed prediction or anything like that, no…. “They remember that the words which they have spoken were not theirs, but His who bade them give the warning. God put the truth into their hearts and they could not forbear to proclaim it.”

And what’s even more interesting with all of this is the very next paragraph. Now, she says “the same trials” (all that we have read already in this paragraph), “the same trials have been experienced by men of God in ages past.” And she mentions Wycliffe, Huss, Luther, et cetera, okay.

And she says further on in the paragraph, “Different periods in the history of the church have each been marked by the development of some special truth adapted to the necessities of God’s people at that time.”

That paragraph is connected with one above. There’s going to be some “special truth” she’s saying. It’s not just simply the Sunday law and the Mark of the Beast, et cetera. “Every new truth has made its way against hatred and opposition. Those who were blessed with this light were tempted and tried. The Lord gives a special truth for the people in an emergency. Who dare refuse to publish it…”, et cetera. Okay, that’s my take on that.

So what’s the “special truth”? You know, that’s a good question. I believe at the very least, it would include the messages that you’re speaking about.

Jeff:

Well, I think it is the message that we’re speaking about without a doubt. There is no other message right now, but this message. But what I was getting at is, what is the really “special” part of that truth that had not been brought forth before this time? And I only asked that question because I figured I’d give a shot at answering it. It is the understanding of “the eighth being of the seven”, that impacts so many of the end-time prophetic truths.

Once you begin to consider the implications, it deals with apostate Protestantism, and apostate Republicanism. It deals with this Movement, deals with the Advent Movement, and it deals with the papacy at the end of the world. And it was the truth that was right there in Daniel 2 all along. And it’s adapted to the very time of the 144,000, which Daniel 2 is addressing.

But anyway, it’s the whole “Revelation of Jesus Christ”, but there’s something about the truth connected with “the eighth being of the seven” that is just overwhelming.

Dan:

Amen. And it seems to me when you put these two paragraphs together, that the disappointment that they experience, which is described in this longer paragraph, is connected with this special truth that she’s speaking of in the following paragraph.

Jeff:

Yeah, I would see that logic too. But how that is, we won’t find out till we get there, probably…the full connection.

Dan:

Yeah. I mean, she’s talking about the opposition, you know, that there’s so much, there’s overwhelming opposition to the message that God’s people are giving during this unlawful crisis, so that God’s people are just, like, Wow! If we had known this was going to happen, if we had foreseen the results of our words, we would have held our peace.

Jeff:

Yeah, and the burden of my presentation today was, you can no longer “hold your peace”. You kind of have to go for it now and let the work that the Word of God is to do in your heart do its work. But it won’t do its work if you don’t act upon faith in agreement with the message that’s being unsealed. So I see what you’re saying, but, you know, it’s a hard truth. Amen.

Moderator: User, whoever’s named “User”, you’re next to ask questions.

Question:

Yeah, I just had a quick question, but before I ask the quick question, if I could just give a few remarks regarding the other groups that have come and gone. It was just a thought that came to my mind, and I don’t want to give my words here. So in John 4:34, “Jesus saith unto them, my meat is to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work.” I won’t read that whole chapter, but we can read it in our own time, but Jesus is addressing His disciples in that particular scripture verse, and “His will”, as most of us may know, who know the Bible pretty well, that Jesus came to do the will of His Father. He submitted to His Father’s will.

Every other messenger that has come and gone in and out of this Movement, the FFA Movement led by God, they’ve only come to do their own will. They seek and sought to do their own will. And that’s why they’ve gone. That’s why they’ve left, because they didn’t come to do the Father’s will. They came to do their own will, and that’s why they’re no more, in my understanding. Somebody could correct me if I’m

wrong, but so, if we’re not submitting to the Father’s will, we’re submitting to our own will. And that’s just my opinion, and you can attach that to any other person’s name, the names that have been said today, the other groups and their leaders. But it was all about personal self-gain. It was about leadership. And I think that’s why they all fell away because they were seeking to do their own will. And that’s how it’s always going to happen. Always going to be that way. It’s always going to be that case, that if we ever tried to do our own will, we’re always going to fall. And that’s, that’s my personal opinion. I may be wrong. Somebody could correct me. I’m open to that. That’s just my thoughts on that.

But my question, my quick question was for the sake of clarification, if anybody asks or wants to know, can the “hidden history”, in those actual terms, been identified, in those actual terms, “hidden history”? Can that be found in inspiration? And if so, how can you answer somebody? Because the Bible says we should always have an answer to give to somebody, in and out of season, in due season. So where can those actual terms, “hidden history” be found? I’m not questioning them. I just want to answer somebody. If somebody comes to me and they’re going to say to me something like, Oh, where did you come up with the “hidden history”? Where is that in the Bible or the spirit of prophecy? Thank you.

Jeff:

Well, it would be really cool if Sister White actually used the word “hidden history”. I’ve never done a search for that. That was my effort to describe the truth, but I have no problem defending it. If you were, in theory, if you were going to be dealing with Seventh-day Adventists on that subject, then they should understand that the book of Daniel was “sealed up”, okay?

And if they understand the books of Daniel and Revelation are the same book, they see that in Revelation chapter four and onward, there’s a book that’s “sealed with seven seals”, and that Christ, as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, unseals it. So you can lead them into the understanding that when the book of Daniel is unsealed at the “time of the end” of Daniel 12, there’s an “increase of knowledge”. And in verse 10, it says, “many shall be purified, made white, and tried”.

This “increase of knowledge” produces the purification process, but it all begins with the unsealing, and whatever it is that’s unsealed, it’s going to be “prophecy”, okay? God’s Word is prophecy, and prophecy is an illustration of history. So the fact that just before human probation closes in Revelation 22 verses 10 and 11, that there’s a command to unseal the prophecy in Revelation that’s been sealed up, tells you that there’s a prophetic history that has been “hidden”, okay? It’s been hidden under the “false doctrines and the debris” of William Miller’s dream. And the “dirt-brush man” comes in and He begins to remove all that garbage that has hidden the jewels.

So I mean, I doubt that there’s an expression where Sister White says “hidden history”, but that’s the definition of the unsealing, and the prophecies that are unsealed are, well, we read a quote today, “…by an increase of knowledge, a people shall be prepared to stand in the latter days.”

Questioner:

Amen. And maybe just kind of the Seven Thunders repeating in our history, could you kind of parallel the Millerite history with the Seven Thunders in that time period into this time period and say that the hidden history could be a parallel of the Seven Thunders in this time period that we’re living in?

Jeff:

Well, I have written my thoughts on that in articles. I don’t know if they’re out there yet or not, but I’ll tell you what I understand. Before the Millerites, John sees the history that is the Seven Thunders in what was uttered by the Seven Thunders, and he’s told not to write it. Okay? “Seal up what the Seven Thunders uttered”, but it’s the same thing that Paul saw when he was taken to the “third heaven”. Paul saw things that it was not lawful for men to write and it wasn’t lawful for John, in the year 100, or Paul in the same history, to write the history of the Millerites, because in their history, the Lord was going to hold His hand over part of that history in order to produce a testing process. So He wasn’t going to reveal that to them in advance.

So the Seven Thunders for the Millerites took place in the time that they lived in, the history of the first and second angels’ messages. And Sister White says the Seven Thunders “represent a delineation of events that transpired under the first and second angels’ messages”. But she also says they, “relate to future events that will be disclosed in their order.”

Before September 11th, I was already not only grappling with the idea that the Seven Thunders represented the history of the Millerites that’s repeated in the history of the 144,000, but I’d already had people arguing that.

So what I’m saying is, in the history of the third angel, which is our history, before 9/11, the Lord had [already] revealed another element of the Seven Thunders. With the Millerites, they simply lived it. Paul and John saw it, but they were not permitted to write it, but the Millerites lived it. And then in the time period of Ellen White, she defined it. And then when we get into post-1989, in our history of the third angel, we begin to see that it is one of the arguments that was confirmed on September 11th, 2001.

That being is that the history of the Millerites is repeated to the very letter in the history of the 144,000. So it becomes a further revelation of the Seven Thunders, because now we are using it to defend the methodology of “Line-upon-Line”.

We have a quote where “the parable of the 10 virgins is repeated to the very letter”. We have quotes where the history of “the first and second angel’s message is repeated in the history of the third”. And we have the quote of the Seven Thunders being the history of the Millerites in our history.

So suddenly, what was confirmed on September 11th, 2001 as the premier principle that guides this Movement; that being that all the Reform Movements illustrate the other Reform Movements, and that the history of the Millerites is repeated in our history. That confirmation came with the activities of Islam, just as with the premier rule in Millerite history, which was the “day-for-a-year principle” that was confirmed on August 11th, 1840 [by Islam].

So the Seven Thunders now have become even bigger in the history beginning at 9/11, because it’s confirming what would be the year-day principle in the Millerite history. The meaning of the Seven Thunders is even bigger now.

But after July 18th, there was an understanding that was opened up, that in the history of the Seven Thunders in Revelation chapter 10 (which can be applied more than one way, but in any case), that there was a history in the Millerite history that had been prophetically “hidden”, and it was established as “Truth” because it presented three Waymarks.

The first being the First Disappointment, the last (the third Waymark) being the Great Disappointment, and the Waymark in the middle was the Midnight Cry where the foolish virgins manifested their “rebellion”.

And this three-step process of “the first illustrating the last”, with the middle Waymark being somehow connected with 13 [meaning “rebellion”], is a “signature” of Alpha and Omega, and of “Truth”.

And then we could see (if we were willing to see), that the “hidden history” of the Seven Thunders being from the First Disappointment to the Great Disappointment was a revelation of the Seven Thunders that had not been recognized before July 18th, 2020, but was recognized immediately after, in July, 2023, that from the First Disappointment of July 18, 2020 until the disappointment of the Sunday Law, that in between when the message of the Midnight Cry was going to be repeated (and it was going to produce a group of rebellious foolish virgins), and that that history of the Seven Thunders was then unsealed in its fullest revelation so far….

If the Lord chooses to reveal more about it down the line, so be it, but at this point what it did was it focused on the history of the Lord “resurrecting” the “dead dry bones”, the “Two Witnesses”, in advance of lifting them up as “an ensign”; and the Seven Thunders is a symbol that has developed through that sacred history, and where it’s at now is the the climax of that development.

Questioner:

Thank you. Praise the Lord. Amen.

Moderator: Larry, you are next.

Larry:

Yeah, all right. I just want to thank Daniel for the quote from Great Controversy. Thank you for that. And then I had a question on the paralleling of the Persian kings in Daniel 11 there. If we start with Cyrus, which I think is where we put Daniel, he’s at the time of Cyrus, and then there’s going to be three, and the fourth is “far richer than they all”, is where we get Trump to parallel with Xerxes. If I follow that line of thinking, that makes Trump five. Is that how you understand that?

Jeff: No.

Larry: Okay, how do you understand that? In verse one of chapter 11, you’re in the time of Cyrus.

Jeff:

Okay, but at “the time of the end” in 1989, one of the things that’s been opened up is that “the time of the end” always has two waymarks. Two. That’s one of the revelations of the beast, and the woman that rides upon the beast. We’re correct when we say the papacy received its deadly wound in 1798, but it was in 1799 that the Pope himself died. There has to be two waymarks.

So when you come to Daniel chapter 11, Cyrus is the king, but he’s the second of the Persian kings. The first is a Median king called Darius. Darius is Ronald Reagan. Cyrus is Bush the Greater. [Then] Daniel has three kings, which are Clinton, Bush the Lesser, Obama the Muslim, and then Trump, the one that’s “far richer”, that makes him the sixth.

Larry:

Okay, so you’re moving one all the way back to Reagan.

Jeff:

I’m not moving one. I’m not moving anything.

Larry:

Right, right, all I mean by that, you’re saying that then Reagan symbolizes number one, so then you’re saying Artaxerxes is number eight, and Trump would symbolize Xerxes and Artaxerxes, Is that correct then, to say?

Jeff:

I’m saying that Trump is number six and that he’s going to be number eight as well, and he, as number six, is Xerxes that stirs up all of Greece, and he’s going to receive a “deadly wound”, which is “healed” when he becomes “the eighth and is of the seven”.

Larry:

So you’d have Artabanus and then Artaxerxes, right?

Jeff:

Yeah, I get what you’re getting at, but I don’t look at it that way. I look at it as if the testimony in verse two ends in 2020. Okay? And then when Trump is re-elected, it’s a different Line. And the reason that I’m doing that is because I see between Xerxes and Alexander the Great, there are eight Persian kings and you’re wanting to count those Persian kings that follow Xerxes, which is going to… I don’t know if it throws the formula off or not.

Larry:

Well, it would make Biden an Artabanus and it would make Trump, when he’s re-elected, Artaxerxes.

Jeff:

Yeah, well, that probably works. But these Lines will have more than one Line that they’re addressing, that [other] Line as well. Because one of the discussions that was taking place right after July 18 was (and I forgot who was saying this, I forget how it was going), but it was saying that Greece, or Alexander the Great, was symbolic of Biden.

And so that, because you don’t have those other kings mentioned in the text, they’re sort of gone. We know they’re there historically, but in the text, they’re not mentioned. And then you just jump straight into Greece.

Larry:

And so that’s where I can see where you’re saying that Line ends there, and we’re not addressing the two, but I was just curious about it.

Jeff:

Yeah, one of the keys to this Message is Revelation 11. It’s when you see who the “Two Witnesses” are, that all kinds of prophecy just reorganizes around those thoughts and they come together in a really nice fashion.

The point being is when you cut Trump off as the “rich” President and say, he goes to 2020, the history that takes up there, if you’re really going to plug in a history, is the history of Revelation 11:11, because he’s “slain” there and he comes back to life. And I think it’s purposeful to put that in there. I think it’s the design of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah to put that in there. And so you got more than one Line that’s developing from that history, but I’m certain that you only have the justification by what’s written in verses one and two to take Trump to his first term. Not all the way to his second term.

So then the battles between the two Kings, the North and the South, that’s where it’s going to pick back up with Trump, basically. The “hidden portion” that’s between 11:40 and 41, that hidden portion, we’re going to pick Trump up back in those texts. And when you pick it up, you have the “battle of Raphia” that starts in 2015 with the Ukraine war. And in that history, you’re going to see that Trump loses his second campaign and then he’s going to come back into history in 2022. He’s going to start “standing on his feet” and start his third campaign.

And those kinds of revelations allow you to tie it together, because you see that Trump has three campaigns. The first one he wins, the third one he wins, the second one he loses. So you’ve got the signature of “Truth” that allows you to put that in that position.

Anyway, I’m forgetting where I’m going now. Now I am getting tired, I guess.

Larry:

Because I’m just trying to understand how this fits together in order to present it to people. Because I’ve already mentioned it to a friend of mine who’s just a nominal Adventist. And apparently this thing about Trump being “the eighth and is of the seven” is not unique at this point because he’s heard it before. And he had real reservations about what I was saying. So I was trying to figure out how we’re presenting that in order to help people see it clearer. So that’s why I was trying to see if that would fit together there. But I understand how it comes together with the battles of Raphia and Panium and the back and forth there. So I suppose then we’re just skipping over the last two.

Jeff:

Maybe. But what you’re doing, you’re looking at the history of verses two and three, and then you’re looking at the histories of, say, 11 through 15. But my point is this, identifying Trump as “the eighth and is of the seven” comes well before that. It already is established before you come and look at that history in chapter 11. Because what you’re doing is you’re arguing that the Earth Beast is going to form an image of the papacy and that the papacy is “the eighth and is of the seven”.

Therefore, the Earth Beast will have to manifest this “eighth that is of the seven” before the papacy does. But when it comes to the Earth Beast, you’re looking at the leaders of the Earth Beast, the Presidents. And when you go back into the history of the beginning of the United States, from the Declaration of Independence, to the US Constitution, to 1798, you’ll see two periods of the two Continental Congresses, which each had eight Presidents in them. And then you have the period of the Articles of Confederation, which also had eight Presidents.

And in both of those periods of time, in that history at the beginning of the United States, you’ll see those that are Presidents in those histories produce the phenomenon that “the eighth is of the seven”, twice. There’s two witnesses there. And those two witnesses all get conveyed in that history upon George Washington.

George Washington has been typified by Stanton in the first eight Presidents, and then by Hancock in the second eight Presidents. And he was “richer than they all”. So he also parallels Trump as well in that sense. So what’s attached to Washington, him being the “first”, is going to illustrate the “last”. And the last President is going to be a President who is “the eighth and is of the seven”.

So what I’m saying is, before you begin sorting through the history of the first 15 verses of Daniel 11, the Lord has already given the prophetic logic for identifying Trump as the “eighth and is of the seven”. And it’s only in the sense that he is the Republican Horn.

The (true) Protestant Horn is going to go through the same phenomenon, giving you a second witness to this “eighth that is of the seven”. And that second witness doesn’t come from the interplay of politics. It comes from the comparison of the history of the Millerites to the history of the 144,000, and then a transition from Laodicea to Philadelphia, and then from Philadelphia back to Laodicea.

So Trump being “the eighth that is of the seven” is settled before [you get to Daniel 2 or Revelation 17]. Maybe it isn’t for you, depending on what you study first. But I mean, that’s where I would build my foundation on Trump being “the eighth that is of the seven”, before I worked through Daniel 11.

Larry:

Gotcha. Okay. That helps. Because I mean, I know those studies, it’s just trying to figure out how to put them [in order]. So basically what I hear you saying, if I can repeat it back to you quickly, is that we’re going to prove that because the beginning of the ending with the Continental Congress being split into eight and eight, ending with George Washington, Washington is the “first”, Trump being the “last”, we have a parallel evidenced by “eight”.

And then also we have to establish that the (apostate) Republican Horn, of which Trump is, has its own application in Revelation 17, in parallel, or in conjunction with Revelation 13, the Protestant and the Republican Horns both falling, and Protestantism turning into Catholicism. So you have a sense in which the papacy is “the eighth and is of the seven”. And then you also have Donald Trump, who is “the eighth and is of the seven” in parallel to one another. Did I say that at least reasonably well?

Jeff:

Yeah. But the other thing to add in the prophetic argument is that in the history where the apostate Protestant Horn and the apostate Republican Horn come together to make the Image of the Beast is the same period of time where the true Protestant Horn (the movement of the 144,000), is being separated from the “foolish virgins”, and they’re manifesting the “Image of Christ”. So you’ve got this contrast between the Image of the Beast and the Image of Christ. And they’re both going through their own “eighth is of the seven” phenomenon. And it’s beyond a coincidence.

Larry:

And does that correspond to the presidents of the General Conference?

Jeff:

People have brought that up before. I know of that teaching. I’ve taught it way back before July 18th, but I haven’t went back into that. There’s things that I think about sometimes, but I just never. get drawn into them, so I don’t know if I’m supposed to leave that alone or if it’s something that comes up further on down the line, but I’ve no comment on that, but I know what you’re saying.

Larry:

Okay, and then so what we’re saying is, that is in parallel with Revelation 13, in the Image of the Beast and Mark of the Beast, we’d have Revelation 6 and 7 basically where the the sealing of God’s people is is also happening simultaneously.

Jeff:

Yeah and the place you get sealed is in your final test, and the final test, the great test before probation closes, is the “Image of the Beast test”. It’s the coming together of those two apostate Republican and Protestant Horns. It’s in that test where you’re sealed and you reflect the Image of Christ.

You can’t make this stuff up, and if they’re both the eighth; Trump is the eighth, the hundred and forty-four thousand are the eighth, that came from the sixth president to be the eighth president, the Church of Philadelphia and through the Church of Philadelphia, there are two different Lines, but it even goes deeper.

I won’t go there but even in the story of the Medes and Persians in Daniel chapter 8 it says the “the last Horn comes up higher…”

Larry:

Right, its even technical in that when the Image of the Beast is formed that it would be the same as with the [Medo-Persian] Bear being raised up on one side, as well…

Jeff:

Correct, and so when Church and State come together in the formation of the Image of the Beast, that testing period begins with a series of laws that have been typified in 1798, and those laws are allowing apostate Republicanism to implement dictatorship [EGW “despotism”], and to begin the process of setting up the Image of the Beast, and when the Image of the Beast is fully accomplished you have the Sunday law.

Now, the United States is speaking as a dragon, but what is in control of the Image of the Beast relationship is that the Church comes up last, the apostate Protestant Horn comes up last, but it’s the one that is marked at the end of the formation of the Image of the Beast period.

The one that is the beginning is the Alien and Sedition Acts, marking the Republican Horn’s involvement, so even that kind of relationship gets down into these Horns, and then ultimately, “the one that comes up last”, in the parable of the Ten Virgins, it comes up as an “ensign” for the whole world. The deeper you go the more consistent it is.

Larry:

Yeah, so then lastly, there seems to me, in my mind anyway, that there’s something to do with when the message goes public in the 1850 chart (as opposed to 1843 chart), where it was an internal work. In the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald they were going back and reviewing and trying to bring the people that were in apostate Protestantism back, or those who failed in the First Disappointment. In that sense should we be trying to reach out to people who were once in this movement, who have fallen away, and then in conjunction with that, has anyone reached out to Noel and Heather del Rosal?

Jeff:

Well, you got to be careful, but there’s there’s a principle in in the story of Jeremiah that says “don’t return to them, but they can return to you”.

Larry:

Yes we’re reaching out. It is different than returning to them I would say.

Jeff:

But you could reach out and it actually be returning to them, and then it would be detrimental, I would think, and I haven’t reached out to anyone once I started waking up to these things. I took the principle that I’m not going to insert myself anywhere, but if people from the past want to get reconnected or whatever, I’m not going to hinder them, so I don’t know how that applies for everyone else, but I did let Noel and Heather know that I’m going to begin writing a series of articles and I would appreciate if they would read them and and give me their input, but I’ve never heard back from them. I can’t even be positive that they got the message, but sure.

Larry:

Okay, just in conjunction with that portion where they did the Review and Herald it seemed that potentially there’s something that needs to happen in that regard, but I also know what you’re saying as well, so that was my last question. I will let you go and thank you very much, have a great rest of your Sabbath.

Jeff: You too brother.

Moderator: Daniel you’re next.

Dan:

Okay, here I’ll refer everyone in regards to, the phrase or the concept “hidden history” in the scriptures. Okay, I would refer everyone to Spiritual Gifts, volume 4 (and maybe it’s 4-B), page 123. I’ll just read one sentence out of the whole paragraph, but I would suggest everyone read the entire paragraph, it’s very very important I believe.

Anyway, “Some passages are placed beyond the reach of human minds until such a time as God chooses in His own wisdom to open them.” That’s it, so I mean, that they’re hiding there, is at least implied. They’re hidden until in God’s wisdom He chooses to open them, makes sense to me.

Moderator: Bonnie? Bonnie Jewel go ahead.

Bonnie: Hi! This is just speaking for Larry, and maybe for all of us regarding his question about the Persian Kings and where they fit in, and I never really worried about them for some reason. I know that some people were talking about them, but when you look at Daniel chapter 10 verse 14 where Gabriel is saying, “Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days”,… because we’re looking at the experience of Daniel who is in the prophecy, which means he’s representing God’s people at the end of time, and Daniel, I know he didn’t go back to Israel, I think he died didn’t he? He died, but the people of God left Babylon and went back.

So that to me is where it all ended, at the third decree of Artaxerxes. That’s what applies to God’s people, because they were gone, one died (Daniel), the rest were apostate, and the other ones left [to return to Israel], and so to me that makes sense, that’s where it terminates, yes.

So, in terms of trying to explain it to other Adventists, if I was trying to explain that, I guess that’s kind of the understanding that I would put forward, that the angel made this understandable to Daniel, and as it applies to God’s people, I don’t think we have to go into all the Persian Kings, because, the Jews that represent God’s people left that place, and so it doesn’t apply to them. I hope that helps anyway. Thank you.

Jeff:

The thing about it though, I get what you’re saying, but not to remove it with a word, but I think history, like Miller said, “history and prophecy prophecy doth agree”. The history that there were eight Persian Kings between Xerxes and Alexander the Great, it may may not seem so much to Daniel’s day and age, but for us it’s teaching truth connected with the formation of the Image of the Beast which is our great test.

So I don’t think between Xerxes and Alexander the Great there could have been 14 Persian Kings. There could have been five, three, seven, or whatever, but the Lord governed that history to where there were “eight”, which allows us to synchronize that history with other Lines of prophecy that are teaching about the Image of the Beast (which is our great test by which our eternal destiny will be decided), and I think we have permission to go in and look at those eight Persian Kings from that perspective, but anyway, I know you’re saying exactly what I’m saying.

Moderator:

Okay two more, so Huawei you can ask your question.

Question:

Okay, thank you, good evening and happy Sabbath to everyone, or good afternoon. My question is very brief elder Jeff Pippenger, and it’s just about the fact that from my understanding of what you’re saying, and the articles you’re putting out, are you saying that this is the removal of God’s hand, or we’re leading up to that gradually down the line? … the removing of God’s hand?

Jeff:

I’m saying that the Lord is now unsealing the Seventh and final Seal, but I personally have understood for years, that the unsealing represents a progressive work. Things that I may understand about the prophetic message that’s being opened up, you may not at this point in time understand.

There’s a period where the message is progressively opened up, but what is being opened up [now], I argue, is the Final Seal, it is the prophecy from Revelation that’s unsealed just before the close of human probation. It’s the prophecy that is represented in the “hidden history” of Daniel 11. It is the prophecy that’s represented in Daniel chapter 2, that Nebuchadnezzar couldn’t remember the dream, and Daniel had no idea of it either. It is the “hidden manna” of the Church of Pergamos. It’s all these references to the unsealing of prophetic truth, that are fulfilled in our history, because this is the history when “the effect of every vision” is accomplished.

And all of these truths can be categorized as “revelations of Jesus Christ”, and it’s not a singular truth, it’s a broad spectrum of truth. But I think what I’m speaking to, that you’re getting at, is that yes, this is the “final truth” to be unsealed for Seventh-day Adventism… for this Movement… before the Sunday law. This is it!

Moderator: All right then, iPhone.

Question:

I appreciate the message, especially the comments and the discussion that came afterwards. I just had a comment that I wanted to make. When you were talking about, “there shall yet stand up three kings in Persia, and the fourth shall be far richer than them all. And he shall stir up the realm of Grecia….”

And then when you consider the fact that Gabriel, when he’s talking to Daniel, he omits those eight kings (and I really appreciate the insight that eight is a significant number which deals with “resurrection”), but then he goes on to Alexander the Great. And there has to be a significant reason why he’s omitting those eight kings. And one of those kings was the one, Artaxerxes, that actually brought about the 2300-year prophecy.

So it’s not a small flight that Gabriel did for Daniel when he went on to Greece. The only significant reason that he would do that is to draw attention to that sixth king in Medo-Persia. And that being Ahasuerus, Xerxes the Great, or Ahasuerus of the Book of Esther, you can’t help but know that that’s dealing with the “death decree” which is preceded by the Sunday law. So in my estimation, that’s rock solid. If somebody is not going to accept that, they’re not going to accept anything. That’s it. My comment.

Jeff:

All right. I guess I’ll have a word of prayer. I hope you’ve all had a good Sabbath so far. Shall we pray?

Heavenly Father, we thank You for this Sabbath day. We know that the sands of time are running quickly through the hourglass, and that You’re wanting your people to stand up and come together as a mighty army in advance of this crisis that’s about to hit as an overwhelming surprise. We ask that the time that we’re spending here this Sabbath, discussing these things, will contribute to that effect. I ask a blessing upon those that are following this message around the world, and a blessing upon those of us that were on this Zoom meeting today. Thank you for all these things in Jesus’ name. Amen.